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Author | Topic: Sad what creationism can do to a mind, part 2 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Why is every design analogy I submit dismissed by you? How about you give me an everyday analogy that would describe ToE?
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Okay, lets do one step at a time.Origin of life...where and how did that happen according to you? (hey, smiling is nice is it not?)
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Karl Inactive Member |
Origin of life is (a) nothing to do with evolution, and (b) currently in the realms of hypothesis. We don't know.
Do we erect straw men? Please point them out when we do. I called yours a straw man because it was. It is not a real reflection of what mainstream science says.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5226 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Sonnike,
To Karl,
quote: Because it is an argument from spurious analogy. http://www.cs.colorado.edu/...ptic/arguments.html#similarity Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Origin of life would seem to be the foundation for the whole thing. If you can't get past how life began how can you exclude God and simply believe that natural "accidents" "created" the world and the variety and complexity of life and nature we know? You call mine a straw man because it does sound preposterous, but that is exactly what ToE is..preposterous....too unbelievable for the logical mind (even if you leave God out of the question, I would never believe such a fairy tale) Listen, this question is for all of you:what is preventing you from accepting God in your life?? Seriously, what holds you back? Smiley
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Primordial Egg Inactive Member |
quote: Nobody's excluding God (many people who believe in God are perfectly comfortable that the diversity of life on this planet is as a result of evolution by natural selection). First you have to discard all naturalistic explanations before coming to a supernatural one. And we don't have to - the naturalistic explanation fits the evidence and explains biology. Saying "Godidit" doesn't explain anything - its a non-explanation. We didn't get out of the Dark Ages by saying "Godidit" to every physical problem we came across, you know.
quote: there's no evidence. PE
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Karl Inactive Member |
quote: No. How life started is of no consequence to evolution. Do you know what Darwin proposed in Origin of Species?
quote: I have no desire to exclude God. If God created the first life forms then so be it.
quote: Not natural "accidents". Matter behaving in accordance with natural laws.
quote: No, but rather because it is a misrepresentation. Your version sounds preposterous, but it is not what scientists are actually saying. A perfect example of a straw man.
quote: Argument from personal incredulity. Since a lot of people find it impossible to believe in God, by your logic He can't exist.
quote: I accepted God into my life in 1983. Last I checked, He was still there. Yep. Also turned up at the Sung Eucharist at York Minster on Sunday morning. But that's faith, not science, and not relevant to evolution.
quote: OK then -
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John Inactive Member |
quote: But its not, sonnike. It isn't like building a geometry where you assume your premises and build an edifice upon them. In other words, scientists do not assume what happened in the past and conclude that evolution is the answer. The ToE is build the other way around. Scientists observe what is happening right now and extrapolate backwards through time checking those extrapolations against the fossil records.
quote: You don't have to get past how life began. The ToE only deals with living organisms. It is independant of how the first organisms got here. God could have made the first critters.
quote: No one is actively excluding God. We have evidence and we follow it. That's all. No one is turning flips to avoid God. There just isn't any evidence that leads in that direction.
quote: That isn't why your statements are called straw men. A straw man is a misrepresentation of an argument. Even if your version is correct, it is a straw man if it isn't the argument being made by your adversary.
quote: agument from incredulity... this is a logical fallacy. What was that about the logical mind?
quote: There is no reason to believe. There is no evidence. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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TechnoCore Inactive Member |
In almost all discussions between intelligent people among different subjects, both parts can mostly fully understand and describe the opponents view, and why they believe in it. When we disagree it is often due to a part in the other idea/concept which is thought to undermine it.
In your post it is just plain evident you have not understood evolution at all. Your points just miss the target. (A small comparison. Communism for example. Anyone who have understood it can agree that it's a great idea. _In theory_. Everyone living together, sharing everything equally in harmony. No class or economical differences. It would be a kind of utopia. I however, and most people nowadays would argue that humans doesn't seem to fit into this model, since we all are a bit too greedy. And that communism doesn't seem to work very good in a real society. But still I can understand the greatness of the idea. ) What is astonishing about creationists is that most of you don't even seem to grasp why evolution is thought of by almost all scientists as a great explanation. Why is that then ? In message after message it becomes evident that most of you haven't taken the time to fully understand it. (Or even just the basics.)Time after time i am just amazed. Does your intellects go into sleeping-mode every time someone offers you a good explanation for evolution ? This debate sometimes seems like a debate between a person and a brick wall. Maybe you should get into the role of the devils advocate...Don't you agree it is easier to argue against something that you actually understand ? Imho most creationists don't even want to understand it. (mind the english, it's not my native languange //TechnoCore
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Hello T.,(I won't hold it against you that you're a swede .. I'm from Denmark myself) Alright mr. Socialist country man.. if you will, present an every day analogy of what evolution is....it shouldn't be too hard, I would think, since you have such a grasp on it. Vi snakkes hved,
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: LOL!!!
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Hello T.,
(I won't hold it against you that you're a swede .. I'm from Denmark myself) Alright mr. Socialist country man.. if you will, present an every day analogy of what evolution is....it shouldn't be too hard, I would think, since you have such a grasp on it. Vi snakkes hved,[/B][/QUOTE] Karl already did in message #34. Why don't you reply to him?
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
------------------------------------
Karl(msg#34): The initial population didn't need to survive long because evolution is pretty much inevitable. Why? Well, organisms have far more offspring than survive to reproduce. There is variation within the population. Those most suited to the environment are those most likely to be the lucky ones. They therefore pass on their beneficial characteristics to their offspring, causing a change in the proportions of different characteristics in the population. Diversity - when a population spreads into new environments, different characteristics will be beneficial in one environment compared to another. Therefore, evolution will follow different paths in different environments. This will lead to a diversity of forms.------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Originally posted by schrafinator: Karl already did in message #34. Why don't you reply to him?------------------------------------------- That's a lovely story..it doesn't really say much and what is does say sounds more like micro-evolution than macro...nobody's is arguing against micro-ev. I checked my University "mainstream science" biology textbook, and guess what, the "story" of evolution is even more laughable in the textbook, than the summary I gave of your "theory" earlier.BTW, even though you guys don't include origin of life anymore (how conveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenient ) the text did,...sad to see such "busch league" material in a university textbook. Forgetting the origin (which you hypocrites don't mind attributing to God), according to ToE single celled organisms take up 3.7 billion years of life, and in the last 0.8 billion years ALL plant and animal life has "evolved"....wow! Like I said before, you guys have greater faith than I do..too bad you won't place it where it belongs (Creator God). Not to mention that according to ToE, probably every 25 million years there is a worldwide catastrophic event which wipes out life (ie. dino's) which leaves even less time to "evolve"...yet even though God describes a world wide catastrophic event, you dismiss it. Give your head a shake people!
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6506 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote: Your design analogy is not valid for exactly the reasons I stated. A building cannot reproduce and is hence not subject to heritable mutation. As to the second part, in post 34, Karl gave you one very simple broad overview of evolution by natural selection to which you never responded. Either it was to complicated for you or you ignored it. If you did read it, what did you not understand?
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6506 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
deleted by M due to duplication
[This message has been edited by Mammuthus, 12-02-2002]
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