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Author Topic:   A proof against ID and Creationism
Jeremy
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 300 (251127)
10-12-2005 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by bkelly
09-19-2005 7:56 PM


Consider. . . If you will.
There is a statement in the Bible, which I assume you view as the textbook of creationists, that says that God has always existed. Without that fact God cannot exist and the theory of creation breaks down into the "ad nauseum" you wrote about. However, if God always existed then creation could have taken place. The way I see it, this whole issue breaks down like this. Either God always existed or Evolution, and/or some yet to be hypothesized theory, accounts for our development.
Now, as far as evolution is concerned. . . The idea that there were simple life forms that developed into complex ones is very far fetched indeed. But the idea that the whole entire universe, in terms of atoms, quarks, neutrons, protons, etc, just happened and everything in it works in such a fine fashion, that even quarks never fail or malfunction on their own, is preposterous. It's estimated that if one atom was completely taken apart, all at once, the energy released would be enough to completely destroy any city on earth, flatten it to the ground. The mystery of evolution to me is not the primordial "soup." It is the big bang theory. That all the particles in the universe obey the laws of physics and relate to each other in such perfect harmony. That is a mystery that someone needs to explain to me. Evolution doesn't explain that paradox, intelligent design. . . consider

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by bkelly, posted 09-19-2005 7:56 PM bkelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Chiroptera, posted 10-12-2005 11:53 AM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 94 by FliesOnly, posted 10-12-2005 3:10 PM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 95 by bkelly, posted 10-12-2005 5:23 PM Jeremy has replied
 Message 98 by NosyNed, posted 10-12-2005 5:50 PM Jeremy has not replied

Jeremy
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 300 (251443)
10-13-2005 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by bkelly
10-12-2005 5:23 PM


Questions answered
I first want to apologize for jumping on the scene so forcefully. This is the first forum I have ever been a part of so you will have to forgive me and fill me in on details when I disreguard common proceedure.
Second, in answer to the question, do you believe in creation, ID, or evolution? I believe in creationism. Why? First I will answer that question for ID. Because intelligent design is a theory which ultimately leads to the same paradox that evolution and creation attempt to describe. If you believe in ID you are left trying to explain how your Intelligent Designers came to be. That natural question of how your designers came about leads you back to the two other theories, creationism and evolution. Both of these theories describe how those suppossed designers would have come about thus answering the paradox that ID can never answer. ID may answer the question for life on earth, but it has huge holes in it whenever we leave this planet. As far as evolution and creationism are concerned, I am sure you will ask why I would choose creationism. Once again I am more than happy to answer this question. Evolution is a theory that, to me, contains too much of a statistical improbability. Also, aside from statistics which I am sure you are tired of hearing about, there is the DNA evidence. My internet is working extremely slow right now or I would give you some sources to look at but I'll give you what I know off the top of my head. The DNA sequencing of many of the suppossed transitional forms does not even come close to that of the next or preceeding life form in the evolutionary ladder. The fact that there are missing fossils for most transitions in the evolutionary ladder does not concern me as much as the vast differences in the DNA sequencing of the animals we have today. For example a Dog is more closely related to a frog than a cat. In sum of this part, most mutations are detrimental to the health of the life forms that receive them. It seems strange to me that scientists and other extremely intelligent people would come up with a theory that is based on something that in very few instances in nature is beneficial and that has never yielded a product that is different in scientific classification besides in species. In fact even many of the "beneficial" mutations I know about have trouble. Granted species change but never into another species, and even with this change the offspring of a plant or animal reintroduced into the gene pool of its ancestors will eventually take on those traits once again.
Now I must answer for creation. Why would I believe in creation? I believe in creation for a reason you may or may not like. The reason I believe in creation is because of the amazing socioligical evidence throughout history. It seems odd to me that the only creatures on a planet to have developed anything that calls them to a higher way of life above their instincts would be humans. It would seem to me that the suppossed transitional forms would also possess this same trait, although to a lesser degree. However nowhere do we see any evidence that this trait of religion was practiced in any of the "transitional" forms leading up to man. We either see that the "transitional" form is either genetically human or genetically primate. To me the fact that so many suppossed myths are later varafied by scientific means, would help explain why almost all humans believe in a God of some sort. If at some time a creator had come and formed us, but then left us to our devices(or as the Bible suggests interacted with us in a limited and very sporatic manner), it would seem only natural that we would form societies to honor that person. Just as any good story is exaggerated over time I believe that many of the creation stories have been exaggerated, but the fact that so many peoples have a creation story, strikes me as too odd to ignore. Now, I am also a Christian so that begs another question you did not ask. Why Christianity and not another religion. I will answer that quickly. Because too many times the record in the Bible has been scorned by archeologists, historians, researchers, etc, but when it came down to it the civilization that those people were saying didn't exist, existed. The Bible is extremely historically accurate, therefore I conclude that the things it states can be trusted.
I know that we disagree on the formation of life here on earth, but I joined this forum for that purpose, to test what I believe. I am a 17 year old full time student so if I don't reply that doesn't necessarily mean I won't, it probably just means I have other pressing issues. However, I am curious to discover what new things I will learn and hope that I stick to fact based, not faith based, reasoning when discussing issues on this forum.
Another question, if you have a website are you allowed to provide a link to it?
Oh, how did you know I had just joined the forum? Was it because I show up as a junior member?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by bkelly, posted 10-12-2005 5:23 PM bkelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by AdminJar, posted 10-13-2005 12:29 PM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 104 by Chiroptera, posted 10-13-2005 12:51 PM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 105 by Annafan, posted 10-13-2005 1:49 PM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 106 by Parasomnium, posted 10-13-2005 4:08 PM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 114 by bkelly, posted 10-13-2005 7:10 PM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 115 by RAZD, posted 10-15-2005 12:09 PM Jeremy has not replied
 Message 125 by bkelly, posted 12-03-2005 1:31 PM Jeremy has not replied

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