Increase in Natural Disasters? Prophesied?

One can determine frequency increase or decrease by looking at the consecutive yearly charts on both the NOAA and the Webpenny charts. It was my understanding that only the NOAA one that Webpenny used gave landfall yearly sequence. However, I've come to realize that only the Webpenny chart page says this list was landfall only and the National Hurricane Center's NOAA chart from which it was derived, does not say that they're only landfall. I didn't realize also that three of those on the sequence charts were not landfall hurricanes until you said so, and I'll take your word for it. I guess it's the flood damage from these later huricanes that has been the greatest factor as to natural disasters. I'll concede that the landfall hurricane post 1948 frequency increase is questionable. Nevertheless, the last couple of decades and especially the last two years appear to be spiking up and the forcast by climatologists looks like we're in for rough years ahead.I stand by the overall increase in natural dasasters in the last few decades, however, from all causes, including some we've not discussed much about, including floods, which, I understand, account for about a third of natural disaster damage.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

To proceed in that direction in debth would be for another topic, I believe. If you know of a long term chart we could look at, imo, that would be sufficient. I'm not aware, from historical stuff over the last few centuries we read, that there has been any real significant periods showing an abnormal long term trend.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

That NOAA list which they used has me baffled as to what it's about anyway, and for what purpose it was compiled. I'm not sure Webpenny purposely missused it, since we don't know whether they checked out all the hurricanes on it as to landfall. They do, however, appear to have been at least, careless in choosing it for their purpose.edited quote by Asgara>>PBThis message has been edited by AdminPhat, 11-08-2005 06:56 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

I've got all I can handle on this thread, and by the time we're done with this thread, I'm ready to talk about other topics.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Hi Mike. I'm glad you're back. I would agree with you if it weren't for the corroborating fulfilled Biblical prophecies relative to the last days of the age, such as the latter day regather ing of Jews back to Israel as per the Biblical prophets, et al which I've posted. I didn't realize that I was being too emotional. At least it wasn't me doing the shouting.

Because we still don't know for sure why and for what purpose that NOAA chart was published which Webpenny cited in their report.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

No honest person appreciates being called a liar, Paul. I may be mistaken on occasion, but I do not lie. I was going on Webpenny's claim that the chart they published was only landfall hurricanes and at the time I posted that I was not aware of some things I learned later.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

1. The chart you linked here does not reflect a consecutive yearly sequence, so as to determine a frequency trend. It is an intensity chart. I addressed that problem.2. This chart does not designate landfall, and I, at that time, honestly thought the other chart did.3. I've had plenty of complaints about certain counterparts in these threads who, at times, weren't arguing in good faith, but I had the decency and civility not to malign their character by calling them liars.4. It remains a mystery, for what purpose the questionable NOAA list was published, and at the time, I honestly thought it fit the ticket for what I needed, so how about we drop the personal stuff and move on as Phat suggests. There's some more topic matter which I believe needs addressing.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

I was typing my post as you did yours, so hopefully we're back on track. Thanks for moderating.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

It appears that we need to refresh our minds as to what the specifics of the original topic really was and hopefully keep the focus on that.The topic was whether Pat Robertson, as per the quotes in the original OP, correct in:
1. His observation that natural disasters appear to be emerging on a frequency increasing trend.
2. If so, whether this thrend fits Biblical end time prophecies.There's something, imo, that we need to keep in mind as we proceed in this debate. That is, that the topic is about natural events which have been disastrous, and not about all climatogical and geological, et al, events, perse. To be disastrous, the event does not necessarily need to cause horrendous structural damage and loss of life, but can also include horrendous ecological damage, such as loss of crops, forest, et al.We've been somewhat sidetracked on hurricane statistics which do not necessarily address the specifics of the topic, when the ones we really need to focus on are the disastrous ones, especially those which moved inland with horrendous flood damage as well as wind damage. Perhaps I was remiss in focusing on landfall perse, rather than those landfall ones which caused the real natural disasters. Likely a number of quite intense storms which did reach landfall were not major disasters. Then too, some which did not reach the US mainland, as per our discussion, did do major damage in the islands and elsewhere.So, in short, the topic is whether bonafide natural disasters have been on the increase in recent decades. Pat Robertson was correct in his comments on that. The debate, of course, is also whether there is corroborating evidence that other events which have been prophesied in Biblical scriptures have come to pass in a reasonable timeframe as the increase of natural disasters. I believe I have shown that some significant ones have, such as events in the Middle East, including the rebirth of the nation of Israel and such as modern technology capabilities implied in some prophecies; capabilities heretofor impossible, et al.

Thanks Phat. Again, we were posting simultaneously, and hopefully I'm heading in the direction you are suggesting as per topic. I need to go for now, but will hopefully be able to address some of your concerns soon.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

I've done that, citing prophesies of the Middle East, including the rebirth of the Nation of Israel, as per the prophets of both the Old Testament and the New, including Jesus himself. I've cited the prophesies on the Middle East, modern technology heretofore impossible, global warming, and other in the book of Revelation, et al. I've shown where the nation of Israel must be in re-established with Jerusalem occupied again by Jews, before it can be said that the end times are here. It appears that it would do well for you to go back and read these things. Since Israel has become a nation, as per the prophets, it can now be properly said that the end times are beginning to emerge on the world, according to the prophets. Natural disasters are just one of the phenomena prophesied for the end times. You raise some good points here. However, unlike any other time in history, we have good reason to believe that this time it's not just another cycle. According to Revelation 16, the 4th vial prophesies serious global warming and it appears that global warming is not going away. global warming affects lots more than just hurricanes. Catastrophies like forest and grass fires, all kinds of weather problems, crop failures, severe drout, flooding and much more are emerging because of it. This all, coupled with the Middle East events, high tech, military capability and such seems to be pretty solid evidence for the veracity of the Biblical prophecies as per the Pat Robertson quotes in the original OP. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel on these problems, short of the return and intervention of Jesus, the promised messiah. Do you? But now that they're global events and military capability has become high tech, able to destroy so much seems to be just another piece of evidence to add to our list. All you need do is google Voice of the Martyrs, Franklin Graham's Samaritan's Purse and other relief organizations who are involved in relief to the suffering persecuted Christians in Islamic nations, Communist nations, Hopegivers International in Hindu India, et al, and you will become aware of the growing anti-Christian sentiment globally. Herw in the US, it's presently hate speech and hostile actions against traditional Christian values, but that will escalate into persecution, as per the prophesied great tribulation of Christian due to persecution. The sentiment towards Christian leaders like Jerry Falwell, Robertson, James Dobson, all good people who've done a lot of good, despite possible faults (they're human too), is telling us that Christianity will experience the next holocaust. Nearly 100 million were murdered by their own secularist communist governments last century in Europe, Asia, et al. I'm Pesimistic on the here and now, optimistic on the future. Before the good comes the bad as per the prophets. The resurrection is our only hope. The planet is the Titanic and King Jesus is the lifeboat.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Paul, it appears that your big problem is that it angers you that this Biblicalist creationist is soooo hard to imperically refute. Why? Because this creationist is meeting your challenges time after time, post after post and page after page. This creationist whom you accuse of lying, admits when mistakes are made and has shown that he is not a liar. You go on personal attacks and never admit to anything when the debate gets intense.Now, let's take a good look at the subject of your latest attack. The buzsaw statement which PaulK cites from original thread: What did buzsaw say here.
1. That we are experiencing an increase trend in disasters is not, in itself emperical evidence of a bonafide propecy.
2. That the increasing disaster trend we are observing is corroborated by other end time prophetic events which I've cited strengthens the credibility of Pat Robertson and myself in suggesting that they could be indicative of the end times of the age prophesied in the Bible.
3. Now, keeping all of the above in mind, read carefully this false/obfuscating statement of Paul. Note the obfuscation tactic here. Paul is obfuscating by saying my item one statement above on disasters is an admission that the disaster trend is not about prophecy, when, in fact buzsaw was simply saying in item one that this needed corroborating stuff to make it relevant evidence that it could be prophetical. ........Says PaulK......the eschatology experts disagree. Students and Biblically educated teachers of eschatology who really study these prophecies in their own context, as well as the context of other similar and related prophecies nearly all agree that they are end time prophetic events concerning the new latter day Israel and events in the Middle East. I've read many of their books and heard many speak on this for the past 60 years. PaulK likes to pick and choose out of context in his personal attack on the debate counterpart, further skewing and obfuscating the opponent's argument.
1. No lie here. Buzsaw responded to the problem of the lost tribes in the thread with a possible resolution to this problem. Go back and read.
2. Buzsaw tied chapter 37 in with the following two chapters, 38 and 39, citing also other scriptures, both in context and relative to context so as to establish that these were about the latter days and that these events were not all fulfilled at or near the time of their writing and have never yet been completely fulfilled.Edited for quote fix.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-09-2005 08:08 PM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

PR does not threaten destruction to US citizens. He simply warns them of how he believes the judgement of God works as per the scriptures which speak of such judgements on those who provoke the wrath of God. This, he believes, would be analogous to warning a blind person headed in the path of danger.On the other hand, Bin Laden threatens to destroy and does destroy US citizens. You may not agree with PR, but don't malign and judge him unjustly and falsy as you're doing. Likely you've, at some time or another, chastized others, admonishing them to "judge not, that you be not judged."As for Chavez, likely PR's not the only notable who thinks this oppressor should be taken out. We've fought wars taking out his kind and some, including US President Kennedy advocated the violent elimination of Chavez type, Fidel Castro, now friend and ally of Chavez. Had Castro been taken out a long time ago, many lives would've been spared and millions of the oppressed would've been liberated. Like Castro, Chavez is arming to firm up his oppressive regime and power in the region. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/ opinion/archive/

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

1. Since Asgara linked the Pat Robertson thread in the OP of this sequential thread, I assume PR is still on topic here.2. Imo, you need to refute the man, but all some of you people seem to accomplish is unsubstantiated personal attacks on the characters of him and other Christian notables. Is it Christophobia or what?

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw