Sad what creationism can do to a mind, part 2

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Originally posted by Syamsu:
And in the same way you would dismiss equality of people as selfevident truth, without once considering the possibility you might be morally wrong.

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regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

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What utter bullchips.In my experience, those that rcognize the unity of nature (via evolution) are far more likely to be humanitarian and compassionate than are those that are strict adherents of ANY religion.

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Originally posted by David unfamous:
I've only just takn a look into this thread, so I'd like to be told what differentiates us from other animals.

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You and apparently everyone participating that does not have religion-based preconceived and inflexible notions...

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Originally posted by David unfamous:
I've only just takn a look into this thread, so I'd like to be told what differentiates us from other animals.

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Me to...so far all I have gotten as a response is sonnikke merely restating "we are not animals" with more and more capital letters or Symansu claiming that he cannot find any differences but it is self evident anyway and that somehow I am associated with the Holocaust, immoral, and anti-intellectual for asking him to support his assertions.

Good point. Some who recognize our oneness with the animals eventually conclude that using them for food is repugnant and become vegetarians. On the other hand, the Bible tells man that animals are provided for his exploitation and the OT encouraged the sacrifice of animals as a form of worship.--Percy

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Originally posted by Syamsu:
And in the same way you would dismiss equality of people as selfevident truth, without once considering the possibility you might be morally wrong.

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regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

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It seems to me that the Torah, Qur'an, and Bible are the ones telling their adherents to slaughter the infidels, and that Ham's descendents are to be "servants of servants," etc.

[begin rant]And there are others who, recognizing the unity of life and mankind's inextricable place within it, seek to prevent, mitigate, or repair the devastation wrought by mankind on his fellow animals through the misguided, ignorant and inherently destructive belief that all other living things exist solely for man's exploitation and pleasure. A belief that is bound up in the egotistical, arrogant notion that humans are somehow "special" and apart from the natural world. [end rant]

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Originally posted by Quetzal:
...A belief that is bound up in the egotistical, arrogant notion that humans are somehow "special" and apart from the natural world.

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We are 'special' all right. We're the only species destined for self-extinction. What other animal could claim that?

Here are but a few differences that embody the immense chasm that separates us from the beasts:1. We make and use tools.
2. Art. No animal has ever drawn beautiful pictures and expressions of their creative imagination.
3. Speech. Although animals can communicate, our speech is far superior including lenghty online debates between intelligent people, in written form.
4. Fire. Animals flee from fire, we USE fire.
5. Burial. Humans bury their dead. We are aware of our mortality. We think about the forever after.To believe we are animals, is to deny the very basic inate sensation of knowing we are human beings.We've put men on the moon, split the atom, sent probes to distant space, discovered and cured many diseases, painted the sistine chapel, built 500 meter towers, etc etc...It is obvious we are different.------------------
Romans 1:20
From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.

In Darwinism there is supposed to be a war of Nature, Nature is defined by it's being "red in tooth and claw". Wherever Darwinists get their humanitarinism from, it's certainly not from their view of Nature. War precludes the more meaningful forms of unity.What makes animals distinct from man is obviously their intellectual capabilities, where maybe the ability to think in terms of spoken language is truly unique, or metathoughts etc. If we would find a being that had similar intellectual capabilities, but otherwise walked on all fours etc. we would of course categorize them together with humans.Whenever I discuss effects on emotive views by Darwinism everybody here always says that those effects are insignificant. This debate shows that people do have emotive views associated with Darwinism and evolution in general to a significant extent.regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sonnikke:
Here are but a few differences that embody the immense chasm that separates us from the beasts:1. We make and use tools.So do other primates...so do crows!2. Art. No animal has ever drawn beautiful pictures and expressions
of their creative imagination.M: Sorry, chimps can paint to...3. Speech. Although animals can communicate, our speech is far superior including lenghty online debates between intelligent people, in written form.M: Since other animals are also capable of communication this point does not separate us from animals. Some animals have a superior sense of smell and use odor as a form of communication so I guess they must be superior?4. Fire. Animals flee from fire, we USE fire.M: OK, if your house if burning down around you, you will not flee? LOL!5. Burial. Humans bury their dead. We are aware of our mortality. We think about the forever after.M: How do you know what a chimp thinks about? Shoot at one and they don't just stand there...
Neandertals buried there dead...S:
To believe we are animals, is to deny the very basic inate sensation of knowing we are human beings.M: To believe we are not animals is due to religious indoctrination and a complete lack science education.We've put men on the moon, split the atom, sent probes to distant space, discovered and cured many diseases, painted the sistine chapel, built 500 meter towers, etc etc...It is obvious we are different.M:Let's see, you were not personally involved in any of those endeavors..I guess you are not human or special?

I've tried to make my argument as neutral as possible, but I just can't ignore the possibility as you apparently do, of either of us lying. You should explore this possibility, just as in many other cases scientists should have explored the possibility that their work was expressing their own corruption.regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

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Originally posted by sonnikke:
1. We make and use tools.

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So do chimps. Strike that one.

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2. Art. No animal has ever drawn beautiful pictures and expressions of their creative imagination.

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You are making too much out of this one. Many animals decorate. It is a matter of degree only. No webpage found at provided URL: http://biology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.academicpress.com%2Fanbehav

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3. Speech. Although animals can communicate, our speech is far superior including lenghty online debates between intelligent people, in written form.

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Again, you have nothing unique here. It is just a matter of degree. No webpage found at provided URL: http://biology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.primate.wisc.edu%3A80%2Fpin%2Fbehavior.html

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4. Fire. Animals flee from fire, we USE fire.

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Bet you'd run from a forest fire too. This falls under the heading of tool use, so it goes under item one, and item one is ridiculous if you've ever studied primates.

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5. Burial. Humans bury their dead. We are aware of our mortality. We think about the forever after.

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This is the best you've got. The practice started with the neandarthals, our kissing cousins, about 100,000 years ago, which means that we were around 2-3 hundred thousand years before the idea occured to anyone. Thus, it isn't much of a dividing line between 'us' and 'them'

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To believe we are animals, is to deny the very basic inate sensation of knowing we are human beings.

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I have no such innate sensation. And you should try to remember that 'innate' means 'I ain't got no proof, I just think so.'

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We've put men on the moon, split the atom, sent probes to distant space, discovered and cured many diseases, painted the sistine chapel, built 500 meter towers, etc etc...

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Big deal? You need a sharp line of demarcation, not a continuum.

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It is obvious we are different.

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No. Not really.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

1. We make and use tools.
As do many animals, including birds. The chimpanzee has the best tool belt. 2. Art. No animal has ever drawn beautiful pictures and expressions of their creative imagination.
Art is purely subjective. If you can define art, I'll give a better answer.3. Speech. Although animals can communicate, our speech is far superior including lenghty online debates between intelligent people, in written form.
Yet with all our words, we still don't communicate as efficiently as most animals.4. Fire. Animals flee from fire, we USE fire.
You'd soon revert to your animal instincts if your house were ablaze.5. Burial. Humans bury their dead. We are aware of our mortality. We think about the forever after.
Animals too mourn their dead. Granted, they don't bury them, but neither do some civilisations today.To believe we are animals, is to deny the very basic inate sensation of knowing we are human beings.
Who said we aren't human?We've put men on the moon, split the atom, sent probes to distant space, discovered and cured many diseases, painted the sistine chapel, built 500 meter towers, etc etc...
How many of those things did you do?It is obvious we are different.
Just as the cat is different from the dog.

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Originally posted by sonnikke:
YES, finally some people from the opposite side have shown up

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It really does sicken the heart to think that some people see themselves as nothing more than a beast (animal)...God is very clear about the fact that we ARE the crown of His creation, and NOT a beast.

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To honestly believe we are just a slightly more advanced ape.....well...what can I say, their eyes our blind, their mind is deceived.

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We love and we hate, we design and we destroy, we birth and we bury, we conquer and we are conquered, we believe and we doubt, we laugh and we cry, we create...

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WE ARE **NOT** ANIMALS!!!!!

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Look, Just because we are naimals doesn't make us not special. I think we are very different from other creatures on the planed because of our unique cognitive abilities.But how are we not animals? We are placental mammals, no? We give birth to young, have warm blood, and produce milk.We are enough like other animals to be able to take parts from them and incorporate them into our own bodies as transplants, you know.I see nothing wrong with being animals. How does this make us less?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zipzip:
[B]The point is, Christianity (like some other faiths) is exclusive of all other belief systems.[/QUOTE]It is? I thought Christianity was derivative of Judaism, and Judaism was derivative of Sumerian religions, etc.?

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In Christianity, God is the author of absolute morals. So his absolute morals have at least a finite probabilty of being real. It makes no sense to look for conservation of absolute morals across different belief systems in this context, because all others would be false.

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Well, if God said it was just and good and moral to kill and rape at will, would it be moral to do so?