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Author | Topic: Near-death experiences and consciousness | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
While that line is quoted in the Ode magazine article, it does not appear in the Lancet publish one. Is that from some interview and is it simply an personal assertion or believe?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, I did read it again. And still could not find it in the Lancet Article, although, as I said, it is quoted in the pop-sci interview.
Just to be sure, I searched on the single word 'disappeaared' which is part of your quote. That word itself does not appear in the Lancet article. Now it's very possible that I overlooked something so if you can point out the page, column and paragraph it would help. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually, it looks like you are once again playing with the facts. The initial quote does not appear in the Lancet article, at least, having completely read and reread it several times, I have not been able to find it. Your quote does not appear to be from the Lancet article but rather solely from the Ode magazine article.
It's unequivocal in it's claims. Well, that's not what the Lancet article says. The closet thing I can find in the Lancet article is not from their study but a reference to yet another study.
Sabom22 mentions a young American woman who had complications during brain surgery for a cerebral aneurysm. The EEG of her cortex and brainstem had become totally flat. After the operation, which was eventually successful, this patient proved to have had a very deep NDE, including an out-of-body experience, with subsequently verified observations during the period of the flat EEG. Far from being unequivocal in it's claims, the actual conclusion is
With lack of evidence for any other theories for NDE, the thus far assumed, but never proven, concept that consciousness and memories are localised in the brain should be discussed. Doesn't sound like they reached any conclusion. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Read it and actually included the quotes in context. If I have missed it in the article, please post it in context so we can all learn.
Others can read the Lancet article for themselves and they can form their own opinions about who is picking and choosing quotes out of context. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
He asks questions. It goes on for several paragraphs. There is NO conclusion drawn.
Once again, here are the paragraphs that you point to so others can see them in context.
With lack of evidence for any other theories for NDE, the thus far assumed, but never proven, concept that consciousness and memories are localised in the brain should be discussed. How could a clear consciousness outside one’s body be experienced at the moment that the brain no longer functions during a period of clinical death with flat EEG?22 Also, in cardiac arrest the EEG usually becomes flat in most cases within about 10 s from onset of syncope.29,30 Furthermore, blind people have described veridical perception during out-of-body experiences at the time of this experience.31 NDE pushes at the limits of medical ideas about the range of human consciousness and the mind-brain relation. Another theory holds that NDE might be a changingstate of consciousness (transcendence), in which identity, cognition, and emotion function independently from the unconscious body, but retain the possibility of non-sensory perception. Research should be concentrated on the effort toexplain scientifically the occurrence and content of NDE. Research should be focused on certain specific elements of NDE, such as out-of-body experiences and other verifiable aspects. Finally, the theory and background of transcendence should be included as a part of an explanatory framework for these experiences. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
ROTFLMAO
Btw, as an aside, it's interesting that one piece of a skull can warrant articles, reconstructions, and reviews of evolutionary paths and is treated as significant non-anecdotal evidence, but at the same time, an account of a NDE where someone remembers specifics while their brain was not functioning is anecdotal. Yeah. Next time you can hold an NDE in your hands and get it independantly confirmed let us know. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yup.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Without more compelling information about memory reconstruction or evidence from NDE studies, I think it's dismissive to suggest that no conscious processes are happening during a flat EEG. I think the best we can do is to say, "yes, we don't know. Not enough data to find an adequate explanation." I think that's pretty much what everyone here except randman have been saying. It's pretty much what the author said the The Lancet article. There are really only a few conclusions that can be gathered from the article. One is that NDE's are not the norm. A second conclusion is that they are not common. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Interesting but I have a few problems with your response. First, it's not in anyway related to the content of the message you are replying to. Second, none of those statements appear in The Lancet article. Third, even if they are a quote from Van Lommel, they are not supported by the reference to The Lancet article.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, nonthing in your post is related to my message. Simply more misdirection. I will not follow you down some other unrelated path.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, the existance or non-existance of a soul has nothing to do with this thread. Stop trying to change the subject.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, that has nothing to do with this thread.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Nonsense.
Yet more misdirection. This is not about what I might believe but rather what the evidence as laid out in the Lancet article shows. And so far you seem to dance all around that instead of responding to the issue. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Still trying to change the subject are you?
Nope, back to the topic. The Lancet article does not support your assertions. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You claimed the Lancet article did not make the claim of consciousness occuring without brain activity, but it does make that claim. Once again you are misquoting what I have said. Look at Message 33 which quotes the parts from the Lancet article you earlier pointed to. The article says it needs to be investigated further. It does not say it's common but that more study is needed to show what happens when there is no brain activity. And the rest of your post is yet another attempt to change the subject. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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