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Author | Topic: What we must accept if we accept evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
So a large body of Christians find that there is logical support for both the fact of Evolution and the Theory of Evolution as an explanation. Does that falsify your assertion? No, it does not. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true. Their view is sentimental, not logical. They are trying to have it both ways, and you can't have it both ways.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You've forgotten where the point came from. You asserted that the Catholic position had a problem. I pointed out that actual Creationist views had similar problems - and therefore rejecting evolution does not solve the problem OK, but who cares for this discussion that the YEC view has logical problems? I said the Roman Catholic view has logical problems. And you say, well, even if we dismiss evolution, there are still problems with the idea of a good God. But that does not affect my argument which is that evolution shows there is no god.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
science is not an avenue of truth. it is the observation of natural processes. it has nothing to do with 'truth'. This strikes me as double-talk.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Wow, what a sick thread. I agree with you rohan That's funny, Prophex.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Would it not be better if you reworded your assertion to say that you believe that if someone supports the fact of evolution or the TOE one must accept atheism? It would still be an incorrect belief but then everyone, even YECs are entitled to hold their incorrect beliefs. I don't see what difference it makes if I put the words "I believe" in front of the statement. Obviously it's my belief; otherwise I wouldn't have said it. But it's not a belief based on faith or whim or sentiment. It's a belief based on logic.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
On the contrary it is relevant that the same problem applies to positions that reject evolution. Because it shows that evolution itself is not the problem. Paulk, there are various reasons for rejecting the concept of a good God. But evolution is one of them. And because it's scientific and not merely philosophical, it is a very strong reason.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Where in what I presented was sentiment expressed? You make a good point, jar. My attribution of "sentiment" to the belief of Christian evolutionists is my own speculation about the reason they would believe what they do. I think it's logically inconsistent to be a Christian and to also believe in evolution, so I thought perhaps the reason why people would believe such an idea is for sentimental reasons. It makes them feel good to believe it. But that's just my speculation.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Did I present logical reasons to believe Evolution happened as a fact and that the TOE was the best explanation available so far? Did you agree with those reasons? Absolutely. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Very interesting post, Modulus. I enjoyed it. I will respond later. Right now I have to grade some papers.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Do you think that it is something which could be supported logically? I seriously doubt it, but give it a whirl if you like.
If man does have a mind that is capable of critical thought, should it be employed? Men don't have minds; they just have brains (thus saith evolution). Whether they employ them or not doesn't matter in the least, objectively speaking, any more than it "matters" whether or not the leaves fall from the trees. Such happenings are of equal significance or insignificance. Of course it matters to THEM, but that's just subjective.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
What makes it sentimental to my mind is that it has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. If you can believe something without also believing it true, just that you like believing it, that's sentimentality Yes, a person might think it's true, but the reasons one does so are emotional not logical. Let's say there's this woman who has the belief that her husband is a fine, upstanding individual, whereas all the evidence points to the fact that he is a coldhearted crook. Her belief is sentimental. Sentimentality can also be negative, but it's still sentimentality. There might be this woman who WANTS to believe and therefore does believe that her husband is a coldhearted crook (she's in love with another man, say), whereas in fact her husband is a fine, upstanding individual. Her belief is also sentimental. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-22-2006 12:31 PM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Evolution says no such thing. It strongly implies materialism.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
It means, Brenn, that your comment makes no sense.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
We cannot conflate scientific knowledge with all knowledge. How very amusing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
That assertion is one of the others under dispute in this thread - and one you have yet to make a case for. Ok, I'll make a case for it. It is impossible for physicality to evolve into mentality. We have two different types of reality here. The physical world is about automatic reactions to stimuli. Everything that happens is like water running downhill. The logical mental world is quite different. It seems to be about grounds and consequents. One cannot evolve into another. Therefore, since evolution is obviously true, there is no mental world. It's an illusion. If our aura of incorporeality was accurate, then we would have a distinct self which makes these logical deductions or inferences. But this cannot be because our thoughts are physically caused. If they are physically caused, then our conclusions are not logical except by accident. But logical thoughts are not supposed to be true just by accident; they are supposed to follow ineluctably, as the night follows the day. Therefore, our sense of logic is an illusion. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-22-2006 09:04 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-22-2006 09:05 PM
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