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Author Topic:   A proof against ID and Creationism
pianoprincess*
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 300 (281591)
01-25-2006 9:19 PM


As I understand the concepts of IDs and Creationist, they say that life (to include all of the universe, atoms, quarks, etc) is too WONDERFUL and complex to have evolved by itself. Just to provide an easy reference, call this the wonderful theory.
One method of testing a theory it to see how it holds up when applied to others subjects. Let’s apply this wonderful theory to god with the assumption that the theory is valid. God is indeed too wonderful and complex to have evolved by itself or his-self if you prefer.
Lets make the obvious explicit. According to the wonderful theory, god had to have been helped along by his own god. Well where did that god come from? The answer is that when the wonderful theory is applied to god, it shows that god cannot exist. So something is wrong here?
I see two possibilities:
1. The wonderful theory is right. This means that god cannot exist because it is not possible for there to be creator of god. That creator would have the same restriction, as would his creator, ad nauseum.
2. The wonderful theory is wrong. The basic premise of ID and creationism is wrong. To say that our wonderfulness and complexity imply a god is patently false.
So which is it? Are there more possibilities that I have omitted?
When testing a scientific theory, your right, you see how it does else where. But science is a physical field...God is not physical, He created the physical, he created science. You can't test God with wiht the physical. He's God.

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Jon, posted 01-25-2006 11:53 PM pianoprincess* has not replied

pianoprincess*
Inactive Member


Message 161 of 300 (281848)
01-26-2006 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Jon
01-26-2006 1:42 AM


Re: A way out.
I honestly onhundred percent believ what I say. I'm trying to weasle my way out. I'm saying what I believe is true. =)
and thx for the welcome Invicts!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Jon, posted 01-26-2006 1:42 AM Jon has not replied

pianoprincess*
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 300 (281851)
01-26-2006 9:50 PM


Invictus said:
Creationism/ID is not specifically related to God. In Creationism, it's the "Creator"; and in ID, it's the "Designer.
I see the term designer and creator as the same. unless the IDer is saying that the designer is not the God of the Bible. (which is prb. the case most of the time.
Both of these theories claim to be science (unlike religion), so they must follow the rules of science, i.e., they must be able to support their claims with empirical (physical) evidence (actually, they shouldn't start out making claims in the first place, but that's a whole other plate of cookies).
Why is it not scienc? because it is not observeable? Neither is evolution. I have yet to see a 'missing link' for starters.
2ndly, we do have physical evidence. We have the same evidence that you do, we just interpret it differently because we have different presuppositions.
Creationists/ID Theorists have yet to provide satisfactory evidence proving the existence of their Creator/Designer
science is incapable of proving anything 100%.
Without such evidence, we are left to do nothing but conclude that there is no Creator/Designer.
But evolutionsis have not provied satifactory evidence proving thier ideas either. Thus, I am left to do nothing but conclude that evolutionis not true. =)

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by NosyNed, posted 01-26-2006 10:28 PM pianoprincess* has not replied
 Message 164 by NosyNed, posted 01-26-2006 10:33 PM pianoprincess* has replied
 Message 166 by Jon, posted 01-26-2006 11:51 PM pianoprincess* has replied

pianoprincess*
Inactive Member


Message 170 of 300 (282085)
01-27-2006 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by NosyNed
01-26-2006 10:33 PM


Re: Missing links
This statement isn't one you can make. That is because you have no real idea of what evidence there is. If you know about .01 % of it I'd be surprised.
What you can say is: "I know so little about this that I can allow myself to conclude what I want as long as I don't learn about it."
You certanly must be familar with the term "missing link"??
And also, don't say things about people you know absolutely nothing about.
Thirdly, If you're willing to discuss this with me, then I'd be more that happy to. But until you do something other than take cheap shots at me and christians in general I'm really going ot stop replying to your posts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by NosyNed, posted 01-26-2006 10:33 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by ramoss, posted 01-28-2006 8:20 AM pianoprincess* has not replied
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pianoprincess*
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 300 (282086)
01-27-2006 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Jon
01-26-2006 11:51 PM


That is the problem with Creationism/ID: presuppositions. Read my signature. Darwin came to the conclusion of evolution AFTER looking at the evidence. Creationists/ID Theorists START with the conclusion, and then try to prove it through misinterpretations of the evidence.
Evolutionsist also have prsuppositions. Everyone does. Evolution presupposes that there is no God.Of course not. If you could see the
"missing link," it wouldn't be missing anymore.
har har!! lol you know what i mean. They are missing because half ape men and the like don't exist and they never have. if they did where are the fossils?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Jon, posted 01-26-2006 11:51 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Asgara, posted 01-27-2006 11:51 PM pianoprincess* has not replied
 Message 173 by jar, posted 01-28-2006 12:00 AM pianoprincess* has not replied
 Message 174 by Jon, posted 01-28-2006 4:29 AM pianoprincess* has not replied

pianoprincess*
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 300 (283814)
02-04-2006 2:28 AM


There is no conflict between the TOE and Christianity, however if ID were proven it would then mean that there is no GOD
There are massive contradictions. =)
and I don't get the second half....????

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by AdminNWR, posted 02-04-2006 9:47 AM pianoprincess* has not replied
 Message 220 by jar, posted 02-04-2006 11:21 AM pianoprincess* has not replied

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