When is a belief system a Mental Disorder?

Didn't he tell Abraham to kill his son..? Or am I wrong about that one.

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I'll try to think of a better example that doesn't require any specialized knowledge (maybe people who don't believe dinosaurs existed?)

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How about the example of the woman who's new boyfriend is molesting her daughter, the kid tells her, the mother simply decides to not believe the daughter, even though she has seen the obvious clues and signs and there is also physical evidence, etc.Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.Indulging in willful ignorance and self-delusion in order to avoid emotional discomfort is very very common in humans.

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The kind that's meaningless, short, and brutal.

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What do those three descriptors have to do with the change in allele frequencies in populations over time?

Plenty. Those changes in "allele frequencies," as you put it so innocuously, mean that we are accidents of a mindless universe.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-17-2006 02:41 PM

Interesting point.... Do you belileve that it is better to deny reality if that said reality is emotionally unpleasant?Which is worse for you? Denying an emotionally unpleasant reality and living in a more pleasant fantasy world or accepting that emotionally unpleasant reality which might be very upsetting?(I don't mean this an insult in any way... I think this goes to the heart of why many people believe what they do. People (including me) allow themselves to believe all kinds of things because reality can sometimes be unpleasant)

Strictly speaking, it is. Give it time. Not at all. But to get back on topic, I think we can make a distinction between those theories or actions which seem to us fanciful but are emotionally understandable and those which are not emotionally understandable.Those which are emotionally understandable, I suggest, could not be called "mental disorders."

Most certainly not. That would be dishonorable.

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Those changes in "allele frequencies," as you put it so innocuously, mean that we are accidents of a mindless universe.

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What does the above have to do, neccessarily, with "meaningless, short, and brutal" lives?

I think you would agree that your life will last maybe 90 years or so at the best, even with your great health habits? That's short. I often think, Schraf, that one should have two lives. I've spent all these years learning how to live, wasting my time. It seems a shame that I should not have another, in which to apply the lesson.I think you would agree that life has no purpose other than subjective ones? That means your life is meaningless, objectively speaking.As far as the brutal part, you've probably already experienced some of it. More to come. It's the blight man (and woman) was born for.This is all due to the accidental nature of us.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-17-2006 04:13 PMThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-17-2006 04:23 PM

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I think you would agree that your life will last maybe 90 years or so at the best, even with your great health habits? That's short.

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It is?According to what objective standard?And what does this have to do with the change in allele frequencies over time?

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I often think, Schraf, that one should have two lives. I've spent all these years learning how to live, wasting my time. It seems a shame that I should not have another, in which to apply the lesson.

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Yeah, that is too bad.What does this have to do with the change in allele frequencies over time?

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I think you would agree that life has no purpose other than subjective ones? That means your life is meaningless, objectively speaking.

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But I do not live my life meaninglessly, so....so what?I don't crave some kind of external validation for the meaning I assign to my life.But what does the change in allele frequencies over time have to do with chosen meaning, anyway? There could be objective purpose and change in allele frequencies in populations over time.

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As far as the brutal part, you've probably already experienced some of it. More to come. It's the blight man (and woman) was born for.

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I experienced nothing in my life that I consider truly brutal. As "brutal"" is ultimately a subjective term, it is pretty useless in this context.What does that have to do with the change in allele frequencies over time.

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This is all due to the accidental nature of us.

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I don't understand this conclusion at all.Please lay out the logical progression for me that starts with "accidental" and leads to "brutal, short, and meaningless".Please leave out the purely subjective judgements.

This was in fact a perfect illustration of how God does NOT tell people to kill. God saved Isaac at the last minute. This occurred among tribal cultures that practiced human sacrifice -- supposedly to God, but at the instigation of the demonic idols. God's calling Abraham to sacrifice his own son and then saving him at the last minute has layers of meanings, one of which was that human sacrifice is decidedly not pleasing to God. Another was that some day there would be a true human sacrifice, of the Son of God Himself, that would truly pay for the sins of the world, as no sacrifice of animal or sinful man could do.

We are products of a mindless universe. We have no purpose. We just happen to be here. We can think up purposes of our own, but of course this is something we just make up. No purpose is any better than any other purpose--because we make it up. We live for awhile and then we cease to exist. We are of no more importance than the wind that blows across the Texas plains. During this time we struggle trying to figure out what we should do, how we should live. We never figure it out. The reason is there is no answer to that question. It doesn't matter what we do or how we live. A hundred years from now it's all the same. We are of no more significance than a roach crawling across the floor.You say this is "subjective."I say it's very objective.

Well, Robin, if you weren't so stubbornly anti-God I could point you to that second life.As I must have made clear by now, I agree with your assessment of this life, I think you put it very well, and that people who run their lives on the fumes of their own subjectivity simply haven't thought it through carefully.BUT it would be a terrible shame for you to have that much of a grasp of the true nature of things and miss The Answer to it. Yeah it's a sad thing for anybody, for the ones who think they are happy with their subjectivities too, of course, but it just seems to me that if you can get that far to the truth, it's extra sad to stop there.This message has been edited by Faith, 02-17-2006 06:48 PM

What do you suggest? I've often featured myself as a monk.

Faith, I have a question for you. If you think it's too personal feel free not to answer. What translation of the bible do you use/think is correct/etc. Also, what books have you used to guide your interpretations and theological opinions? I'm just trying to understand a little better where you are coming from.I'm curious, because to me, you seem to be the most consistent creationist on the board. You don't try to hand-wave or move the goal posts. You just choose the bible when it conflicts with science. While I do not agree, I will say I respect you for straightforward about it.That's why I am asking this question. So I can get an idea of how you came to hold the interpretations of scripture and beliefs you hold.Like I said, feel free no to answer if it's too personal.