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Author | Topic: Does God = Allah | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
In the "why does God require faith" thread, one of the creationist contributors appeared to acknowledge that Muhammed's meeting with the angel Gabriel was an actual event (although the claim was made that he infact met with a demon)
This suggests to me, and it was indeed confirmed, that the poster believed that the testament of Muhammed was true... i.e. He did meet something of supernatural origin, be it angel or demon. The question then follows... Do biblical creationists believe that the 'miracles' reported in the Qu'ran actually happened?If so they must feel that Allah exists, If this is the case, Are Allah of the Qu'ran and God of The Bible the same person? Was the Qu'ran inspired By Allah in the same way the Bible was Inspired By god? (From a literalists point of view)
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
I guess the thrust of the question i was asking is:
What view Do biblical literalists hold with regards to the authenticity of the Qu'ran. and vice versa. the point being driven by the fact that a biblical literalist here seemed to think that events in the Qu'ran actually happened although they might interpret them a little differently; Angels vs Demons etc. The title of the thread is more figurative than anything I guess.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
faith writes: what "events in the Qu'ran" are you talking about? From message 90 of "why god uses faith" ( i don't know how to link.. sorry..)
faith writes:
to which i replied:
... Just as I believe it was not the angel Gabriel but a demonic impersonation that appeared to Mohammed.creavolution writes:
then..
interesting... Any basis for this belief at all?faith writes: Sure, the "angel" he talked to contradicted the Bible, in which the true angel Gabriel has a part. to which I replied...
creavolution writes: So you rule out a misinterpretation/miscommunication or even pure invention of the event, in favour of invoking demons? My point being... you chose to believe that the Qu'ran was truth but that the experience was meeting a demon rather than thinking that the whole thing was made up? or untrue... I thought that was interesting and made me wonder if Christians see other holy books as truth, that is, the truth about encounters with demons rather than angels.
faith writes:
I'm thinking more of the supernatural events..
Otherwise there is mention of a few historical battles from Mohammed's efforts to force his religion on people. Why doubt those? They appear to be true enough.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
please read my posts before making your snide comments...
I was trying to determine whether you believed that the event of mohammed meeting "gabriel" actually happpened (even though you believe it may have been a demon) as opposed to believing that the whole encounter was pure invention.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
faith writes:
I mean truth is the sense that the Qu'ran says mohammed met with Gabriel. You are using the word "truth" in a very strange way. I certainly do not consider the Qu'ran to be truthYou believe it was a demon. Yet you seem to accept as TRUTH that mohammed met with someone/ something. faith writes:
So mohammed meeting with an angel/demon is not supernatural? There ARE no supernatural events in the Qu'ran that I know of, CreavolutionI was under the impression that these were super natural beings. faith writes:
I am not confused, you are simply not reading my posts.. please do so or don't respond. I've no interest in letting you drag this down into another slanging match. ALL you are talking about in your very confused way is where the teachings in the Qu'ran came from I'll go through it once more shall I? -In the Qu'ran(?) Mohammed is said to have met with the angel gabriel.-You asserted that this was a demon and not an angel. -I asked you to back this up -you said it was because 'gabriel' in the Qu'ran contradicted 'gabriel' in the bible -I then questioned why you accept the Qu'ran(?) as being truthful when it says mohammed met with a super natural entity, mere;y questioning the identity of the entity, rather than merely dissmissing the whole event as hallucination/invention/fantasy. very simple. if all you're going to do accuse me of being confused please don't respond. this is/was not an attack on you I'm merely trying to understand where you draw the line between truth and untruth in this situation and why you do so. ABE: to note the meeting between mohammed and gabriel may not be in the Qu'ran but is a belief held by muslims This message has been edited by Creavolution, 04-26-2006 03:34 PM
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
faith writes: I guess you think this is an "event in the Qu'ran?" The confusion here is apparently that you think the report of Mohammed's talking to Gabriel is IN THE KORAN. I do not believe it is in the Koran. It is something that is believed ABOUT the Koran. ..whether it is in the Qu'ran or not is irrelevant, the point is it is a belief held by Islam.I was trying to rationalise why you thought the encounter actually happened (although with a demon rather than an angel) rather than dismissing it as pure invention.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
So.. can you simply answer me why you accept, as truth, the meeting between Mohammed and the angel/demon?
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
faith writes:
ok.. so you 'tend' to believe these types of stories.
1) I tend to believe people are telling the truth about such events although they misinterpret them. faith writes:
you know that people claim to hae had such experiences from history, not whether they actually occured.
2) I know such things happen from many other similar incidents in history. faith writes:
I say Demon/angel because you see it as an demon, others may see it as an angel.
Please do not say demon/angel. You confuse things that way
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
catholic scientist writes: By that logic, wouldn't the new information from someone like David Coresh supersede the Koran? This is something that I consider quite a lot, why do people accept a certain faith? I often wonder if a christian had been raised in an islamic nation with an islamic family, would they at some point be destined to switch to xianity? and it's kinda related to the OP too. Why does a xian accept the NT (or the god of the NT)and then not entertain anything else.. as being remotely correct.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
faith writes: Remember that when Aaron's sons offered improper incense on the altar that God struck them dead What a wonderful God you worship! sounds like a spoiled brat.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
faith writes: If Christianity is correct then the others simply are not. If any other religion is correct then ours is not. Is the possibility of each of them being partially correct (for example the common themes/events), but also each of them being flawed, totally closed to you? I have difficulty understanding how one can accept a violent, vengeful... and seemingly irrational god who would kill people for having the wrong incence, or destroy a whole city beacuse of the beliefs of it's king out of one side of your mouth, and yet condemn the violent aspects of other religions. but again, that is OT... sorry
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
Uhm... I didn't type that...
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
buzsaw writes:
Why? It is my opinion that Muhammed's vision was real and demonic,why do you hold this opinion rather than the opinion that it was made up or an hallucination?
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
again.. rather than belive them to be false you choose to believe them to be demonic.
What is the rationale for this?
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1314 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
So far Your and Buz have both stated your opinions that Muhammed's vision was real and demonic.
the reasoning behind this has been opinion, and 'tendancy' to believe people who have such revelations. I'm still unclear how you can reach that conclusion. But the question must follow, do you believe, for instance, all reported human interactions with Hindu Gods? (even as Demons) were actual occurances? I am trying to clarify your position here. Do you Feel that your god is the only god, and all other god are really demons (as opposed to simply non existant)?Do you feel that all other belief systems are inspired by the devil? or do you simply think they are misguided/mistaken?
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