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Author Topic:   Dissecting the Evolutionist Approach to Explanation and Persuation
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 255 (293640)
03-09-2006 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Percy
03-09-2006 11:43 AM


Re: Another Area for Improvement
By the way, when there's something I don't understand, I really appreciate it when someone is willing to take baby steps with me. Silas did it for me on a couple occasions, and more recently cavediver.
It's all in the tone, Percy. If the intent seems friendly, that's one thing. But this was not friendly on the part of some. Your tone, however, was not condescending at all. But that's just my view from outside from someone who didn't participate in the argument with Faith directly.
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-09-2006 10:59 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Percy, posted 03-09-2006 11:43 AM Percy has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 255 (293642)
03-09-2006 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by AdminJar
03-09-2006 10:35 AM


Re: beware the ideas of mark's
This would be a good topic if somebody wants to start it. I start too many as it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by AdminJar, posted 03-09-2006 10:35 AM AdminJar has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 186 of 255 (293650)
03-09-2006 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Wounded King
03-09-2006 12:17 PM


Re: molecular?
Why have patterns of relatedness visible at effectively functionless bases, i.e. the third codon base for most amino acids?
I can't discuss this. I don't know anything about it. But somebody mentioned some kind of messed-up gene having to do with some vitamin that appears in both apes and man. That's evidence for the evo side, I suppose.

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 187 of 255 (293651)
03-09-2006 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by mark24
03-09-2006 12:24 PM


Re: molecular?
He could have put the fossils there too, that nullifies that argument.
That's not the same idea at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 12:24 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 12:34 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 189 of 255 (293656)
03-09-2006 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by mark24
03-09-2006 12:34 PM


Re: molecular?
It's exactly the same idea.
There's no reason for those fossils to be lying about.
There is a reason for genotypes and phenotypes however: being fruitful and multiplying.
There are two possible explanations: evolution or special creation.
Both are radical and strange.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 12:34 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 12:48 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 255 (293658)
03-09-2006 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by mark24
03-09-2006 12:48 PM


Re: molecular?
God put them there.
Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 12:48 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 12:52 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 255 (293663)
03-09-2006 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by mark24
03-09-2006 12:52 PM


Re: molecular?
DNA has an obvious function; fossils do not. There's no reason for them that can be linked to human life and so they are better evidence in that sense, and also more direct evidence.
Without the fossils, we have mostly an argument from incredulity.
abe: Evolution must be true because special creation is incredible.
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-09-2006 11:56 AM
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-09-2006 11:58 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 12:52 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 1:04 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 255 (293669)
03-09-2006 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Percy
03-09-2006 12:51 PM


Re: molecular?
In other words, I don't believe that there is anthing we could find where we could reasonably conclude, "God would never have done this, it must have happened without his guidance."
Yes, there is: fossils.
This post is an attempt to apply the lessons learned in this thread, so give me a grade. No need to be kind, I don't need grade inflation, I'm trying to learn.
A--for fairmindedness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Percy, posted 03-09-2006 12:51 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2006 1:25 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 227 by Percy, posted 03-09-2006 8:05 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 198 of 255 (293670)
03-09-2006 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Ooook!
03-09-2006 1:09 PM


Re: Strands of evidence or a framework?
It seems to me that arguments which are more symphathetic to the creationist side
I'm not sympathetic to the creationist side. I'm trying to make a point about the nature of evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Ooook!, posted 03-09-2006 1:09 PM Ooook! has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Ooook!, posted 03-09-2006 1:41 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 255 (293671)
03-09-2006 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by mark24
03-09-2006 1:04 PM


Re: molecular?
Utterly, utterly irrelevant.
"Why" is not irrelevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 1:04 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 206 of 255 (293685)
03-09-2006 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by crashfrog
03-09-2006 1:25 PM


Re: molecular?
Why wouldn't God have made fake fossils?
That is not a reasonable action to attribute to the traditional idea of the Almighty.
However, creating a method of gene flow by which we could all be similar yet different is very understandable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2006 1:25 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 211 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2006 1:57 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 207 of 255 (293688)
03-09-2006 1:54 PM


Special creation
It's not a question of whether God could do something. Obviously He could do anything that's not contradictory (round squares). The question is, would some action be a reasonable act to attribute to God?

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 255 (293696)
03-09-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by crashfrog
03-09-2006 1:57 PM


Re: molecular?
God is already defined as a being whose actions may appear as unreasonable to us.
If you want to define the traditional concept of God that way, then the God I don't believe in is different from the God you don't believe in, and I think a little religious tolerance is in order here.

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 Message 211 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2006 1:57 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 255 (293701)
03-09-2006 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Ooook!
03-09-2006 1:41 PM


Re: Strands of evidence or a framework?
I think that you fall into the same trap as creationists do. I suppose what I want to know is why.
Why did I fall into a trap? That's a trick question. I deny falling into any trap.

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 232 of 255 (293890)
03-10-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Percy
03-09-2006 8:05 PM


Re: molecular?
But the premise was that "The Lord works in mysterious ways."
I don't know about that. But it seems to me obvious that if you make a list, you can easily see how one of these is much less reasonable than the others:
1. God created a reproductive process which makes us similar yet different. This we call imperfect replication.
2. God created fossils.
3. God created a nested heirarchy of life forms.
Therefore, fossils is the best evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Percy, posted 03-09-2006 8:05 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Wounded King, posted 03-10-2006 10:36 AM robinrohan has replied
 Message 239 by crashfrog, posted 03-10-2006 11:36 AM robinrohan has not replied

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