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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Scientific Fact versus Interpretation | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You probably don't mean to be patronizing but that's what you are doing. Please just back off and read a while. Thanks.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry to be so touchy, but your questions ARE patronizing, and I would just ignore them except that then people get on my case for ignoring posts. Just put in some time at EvC for a while. You are new and I know nothing about your posting style.
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-15-2006 04:39 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So we have an event recorded in the strata, and a preserved environment. I'm using a simple example because I not a geologist, not because I'm trying to be rude! The point is that to us it is simple to see that a city buried by an ash flow is a city buried by an ash flow- to people trained in this stuff, being able to tell that an area was once a lagoon is similarly obvious. What I'd like to see is maybe if we have an objection to a postulated environmental situation we could query how it is that such-and-such a conclusion was arrived at. All the geologists appear to have is rocks with certain characteristics that remind them of this or that kind of environment where these characteristics have been encountered before. The rock under consideration is sandwiched tightly in a stack of layers of different rocks that reaches enormous heights in some locations. This is not like digging up an ash-covered city. This requires prodigious imaginative speculation that starts out with all kinds of preconceptions that don't apply to the scenario you are describing. They assume the rock got there in sedimentary form for starters (which is obvious enough I agree), and was laid down over a period of millions of years (not at all obvious), and therefore represents a time period rather than just rock that happens to have some features normally associated with desert origin or marine origin or some other kind of origin. Since they assume those millions of years, that leads them to think the whole region in which that rock formed had to be a "desert environment" or a "marine environment." Sometimes one will encounter a geo-inspired illustration of an "environment" that is assumed to have prevailed over the entire earth based on such hints. There is even an illustration of a blackened earth somewhere online that I found months ago, black trees even, to represent the "environment" supposedly represented by the "Carboniferous" period, as if any life at all could live in such an "environment." There is nothing DIRECT about the interpretations I'm trying to bring up, as there is in the case of an ash-covered city. I don't need a lesson in how to make interpretations from obvious evidence. Again, I'm sorry to be so touchy but for pete's sake, I'm not an idiot. My original post MEANS something. How nice it would be if some time people would just GET THE POINT instead of quibbling over every little detail. Sheesh. This message has been edited by Faith, 03-15-2006 05:15 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It is true, this distinction is so obvious to me I can't imagine how to explain it beyond presenting the examples of it, which I expect others to recognize as I do, but they don't.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What do you think of the idea that the Carboniferous Period was a "landscape" all covered with black carbon, in which trees grew and animals roamed?
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-15-2006 05:49 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Actually, I think even in the case of the find of an ash-buried city, the fact that it was found this way is important to the story, and as a matter of fact it isn't usually left out the way the steps on the way to the "desert environment" are often left out.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Maybe I'm just getting too old for this. My point was AS USUAL very simple AND obvious. It should be obvious upon reading through the examples, so really, I just have nothing more to say.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The point about these conjectures is that they aren't just conjectures of the sort we always build on observations or evidence, they are complete imaginative fantasy scenarios that cannot be tested at all. Yes they are built upon observed phenomena, or "evidence" but because they are just these scenarios they really should never be spoken of in the terms of finality they usually are.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I haven't proposed anything in the way of motivations. I don't assume anything underhanded.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I know, it IS ridiculous, but I did actually find this site that appeared to be quite serious, that depicted such a landscape. I haven't been able to find it again.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
While it might be your opinion that coal is created from some dump of consolidated plant material during the flood, the transition from peat to coal that we can see today is what mainstream geology uses to construct the theory that coal beds were once lush swampland. Of course that is not the only evidence that points toward a swamp environment but it is the most simple. Seems to me that coal would have been produced in similar conditions wherever, but that the Flood would have provided beaucoup similar conditions.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Great. Then if you are right Faith, there should be an identifiable layer all over the world with a band of coal that was all laid down at the same time. Well, imagine THAT, the CARBONIFEROUS layer!! There you have it!! This message has been edited by Faith, 03-15-2006 09:40 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, tell me how you plan to test the conjecture that a certain rock formation was created in a certain kind of environment. You can show how the conjecture was arrived at, but you can't test it to see if it's true.
Or tell me how you plan to test the conjecture that a certain layer of the geo column represents a particular time period that lasted however many millions of years, and was characterized by a certain kind of sedimentary "landscape" and a certain kind of animal and plant life. Again, you can show how the conjecture was thought up, but you can't test it to see if it's true. This message has been edited by Faith, 03-15-2006 09:44 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Flood theory doesn't need a single layer. Single, multiple, anything is possible from the Flood. Many layers at different depths are quite a reasonable possibility from the flood.
So you keep proving the Flood!! The limestone and sandstone were simply transported and deposited by the Flood in sedimentary form. They hardened after the Flood of course. No problem whatever with this fact. The time factor is of course just an evo pipe dream. Your scenario proves the Flood. Nice going!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, that is a possibility too. Thank you Ratel. You're starting to grow on me.
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