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Author | Topic: On the verge of a break-through | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Mike, I find it really distubing that you are seemingly equating someone who becomes sexually aroused by murdering children with the physical expression of sexual desire between two consenting adults of the same sex.
And I am also incredibly sad and dismayed that you believe this next bit:
quote: Do you really despise, hate, revile, and loathe yourself, and indeed, all of humanity, so completely? I am so glad I am not a Christian.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: 1) Good for you for taking the position that "it's your problem". 2) It's so sad that you hate to look upon normally accepted public expressions of love between consenting adults, no matter who is doing the expressing. Being uncomfortable with it, or finding it unusual, or unfamiliar, or not personally finding it pleasant is one thing, but hate? That's a serious overreaction.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I didn't say you hated gays. I quoted your own words, rat, or hadn't you noticed? You said that you hated to look at "it", which I took to mean "affectionate behavior between same sex lovers", but that it was your problem. I was talking about what I view as your overreaction to this.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, what you seem to be saying is that God hates fags. Nice.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: How so?
quote: Correlation is not causation.
quote: What do any of these have to do with two people (of the same gender) who are in love, and express that love sexually to their mutual joy? Ofcourse I loathe these things that exist in us. None of them would happen if people obeyed God and feared God's justice that will come upon them for doing wicked things.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
double post
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, that's pretty much what I meant. I think it is entirely a cultural thing, rat. It's what you're used to and what our culture has taught you about what you should and shouldn't "like" or "mind".
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Of course, this that you accuse jar of doing, you are also doing.
quote: So, can I also assume that you believe that women have no place as pastors in the church, and shouldn't wear fancy clothes or jewelry, and in general, you believe that women have inferior judgement compared to men?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Only to some, but certainly not to most, at least in the US. It seems that that whole "over half of all marriages end in divorce" statistic is misleading. Over 70% of all first marriages don't end in divorce. There is a small group of people who get married and divorced in a "serial" manner (i.e. over and over) who are skewing the statistic up to the "over 50%".
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, if this is the impression you are giving...
quote: Sure. You wrote:
quote: You seem to be saying that God disapproves of gays, and in fact considers being gay "shameful" (the opposite of pride). How is that so different from "God hates fags"?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Er, and how is religious law any different? Do you believe that women should remain silent in church, refrain from wearing expensive clothing or jewelry, and have inferior judgement to men?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Then you must, indeed, believe that women should remain silent in church, that they should not wear expensive clothes or jewelry, and that their judgement is inferior to men's.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I was wondering, mike, if you might look in on my questions regarding women in church, their clothing, etc., on this thread.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: No. Paul's letters were instructions to various peoples which he had, or was hoping to, convert.
quote: (1 Tim 2:13-14 NRSV) For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Please note the use of the word "for" above. Below is the list of rules regarding women's behavior, and the above statement is the justification.: (1 Cor 14:34 NRSV) women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as the law also says. (1 Cor 14:35 NRSV) If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. (1 Tim 2:11 NRSV) Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. (1 Tim 2:12 NRSV) I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. Good Christian women, according to the NT, must submit to men, learn in silence, and are forbidden to teach or have authority over any man, because Eve was deceived and became a transgressor. This is what the Bible directs, mike.
quote: There is no try, mike. Only do. And I have.
quote: Hey, you are the one who said he followed God's rules regardless of "man's way" or somesuch. There's more... 1 Cor 1:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing Clo 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
quote: Whatever, mike. Just answer the questions. Do you follow the Biblical rules regarding women or not?
quote: Right, mike. I just told you what Paul says that God says. I just gave you a whole bunch of unambiguous directives straight from the NT. Do you accept them or not?
quote: As a believer? I have no idea how or if you are going wrong. That's not for me to determine. But I can tell you that you have a double sandard, saying that you refuse to condone homosexuality because of the Bible, yet ignoring the Bible's repeated and clear commands of women. In fact, the Bible is much more adamant regading the submission of women to men if the number of times such a directive is repeated is any indication.
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