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Author Topic:   On the verge of a break-through
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 38 of 112 (322405)
06-16-2006 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by mike the wiz
06-16-2006 10:54 AM


Mike, I find it really distubing that you are seemingly equating someone who becomes sexually aroused by murdering children with the physical expression of sexual desire between two consenting adults of the same sex.
And I am also incredibly sad and dismayed that you believe this next bit:
quote:
Now all of this desire is from the selfish evil flesh, and we know it's nature; that it would murder to gratify. Therefore we are guilty of obeying our evil selfish genes.
Do you really despise, hate, revile, and loathe yourself, and indeed, all of humanity, so completely?
I am so glad I am not a Christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by mike the wiz, posted 06-16-2006 10:54 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by iano, posted 06-16-2006 7:07 PM nator has not replied
 Message 49 by mike the wiz, posted 06-17-2006 11:55 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 40 of 112 (322408)
06-16-2006 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
06-16-2006 1:17 PM


quote:
I hate to look at it, but that is my problem isn't it?
1) Good for you for taking the position that "it's your problem".
2) It's so sad that you hate to look upon normally accepted public expressions of love between consenting adults, no matter who is doing the expressing.
Being uncomfortable with it, or finding it unusual, or unfamiliar, or not personally finding it pleasant is one thing, but hate? That's a serious overreaction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 06-16-2006 1:17 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by riVeRraT, posted 06-16-2006 7:19 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 47 of 112 (322516)
06-17-2006 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by riVeRraT
06-16-2006 7:19 PM


quote:
Can you do me a favor and explain how you got that I hate gays from any of this?
I didn't say you hated gays.
I quoted your own words, rat, or hadn't you noticed?
You said that you hated to look at "it", which I took to mean "affectionate behavior between same sex lovers", but that it was your problem.
I was talking about what I view as your overreaction to this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by riVeRraT, posted 06-16-2006 7:19 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by riVeRraT, posted 06-17-2006 12:43 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 64 of 112 (323134)
06-19-2006 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by mike the wiz
06-17-2006 10:54 AM


quote:
I don't care about pleasing men. If they're pissed because I won't say "oh yeah, be gay and prosper", then that's their problem, because I believe in God, not gay pride.
So, what you seem to be saying is that God hates fags.
Nice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by mike the wiz, posted 06-17-2006 10:54 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by mike the wiz, posted 06-19-2006 8:14 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 65 of 112 (323138)
06-19-2006 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by mike the wiz
06-17-2006 11:55 AM


Re: mike won't join the happy clappy gay friendly celebration
quote:
What I was saying is that both actions are the result of the same drive.
How so?
quote:
Can you say that the Ukraine monster would have murdered those children, if he didn't have a sex drive?
Correlation is not causation.
quote:
I loathe rapists, pedophiles, serial killers, killers of babas.
What do any of these have to do with two people (of the same gender) who are in love, and express that love sexually to their mutual joy?
Ofcourse I loathe these things that exist in us. None of them would happen if people obeyed God and feared God's justice that will come upon them for doing wicked things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by mike the wiz, posted 06-17-2006 11:55 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by mike the wiz, posted 06-19-2006 8:34 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 66 of 112 (323139)
06-19-2006 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by mike the wiz
06-17-2006 11:55 AM


sorry
double post
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by mike the wiz, posted 06-17-2006 11:55 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 68 of 112 (323141)
06-19-2006 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by riVeRraT
06-17-2006 12:43 PM


quote:
You know what, I wish I knew why I "hated" to look at it too. That bothers me about myself. I probably shouldn't have used the word hate, but dislike.
Well, that's pretty much what I meant.
I think it is entirely a cultural thing, rat. It's what you're used to and what our culture has taught you about what you should and shouldn't "like" or "mind".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by riVeRraT, posted 06-17-2006 12:43 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2006 3:46 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 69 of 112 (323144)
06-19-2006 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by mike the wiz
06-18-2006 11:47 AM


quote:
IMHO, it's Argumentum ad nauseam for your own ideology, because you're just asserting that your own ideology is correct, via much repetition.
Of course, this that you accuse jar of doing, you are also doing.
quote:
Since I am a believer in the NT, then as a believer in the NT, I am allowed to claim it is [my God's] law/rule, which is the reason why I, from my theological perspective, am not obliged to voice praise/confirmation for gay activity.
So, can I also assume that you believe that women have no place as pastors in the church, and shouldn't wear fancy clothes or jewelry, and in general, you believe that women have inferior judgement compared to men?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by mike the wiz, posted 06-18-2006 11:47 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 70 of 112 (323148)
06-19-2006 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by riVeRraT
06-19-2006 7:41 AM


quote:
Seems like marriage is a joke these days.
Only to some, but certainly not to most, at least in the US.
It seems that that whole "over half of all marriages end in divorce" statistic is misleading.
Over 70% of all first marriages don't end in divorce.
There is a small group of people who get married and divorced in a "serial" manner (i.e. over and over) who are skewing the statistic up to the "over 50%".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2006 7:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2006 3:48 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 74 of 112 (323164)
06-19-2006 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by mike the wiz
06-19-2006 8:14 AM


quote:
I could write a book on what people think I am saying.
Well, if this is the impression you are giving...
quote:
Can we stick to what I actually have said?
Sure.
You wrote:
quote:
I don't care about pleasing men. If they're pissed because I won't say "oh yeah, be gay and prosper", then that's their problem, because I believe in God, not gay pride.
You seem to be saying that God disapproves of gays, and in fact considers being gay "shameful" (the opposite of pride).
How is that so different from "God hates fags"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by mike the wiz, posted 06-19-2006 8:14 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by mike the wiz, posted 06-19-2006 9:06 AM nator has replied
 Message 85 by riVeRraT, posted 06-21-2006 8:34 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 76 of 112 (323168)
06-19-2006 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by mike the wiz
06-19-2006 8:44 AM


quote:
I am usually cynical about any world-rules, because man as a subjectivite, creates a law today, against that which was righteouss yesterday.
Er, and how is religious law any different?
Do you believe that women should remain silent in church, refrain from wearing expensive clothing or jewelry, and have inferior judgement to men?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by mike the wiz, posted 06-19-2006 8:44 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 77 of 112 (323169)
06-19-2006 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by mike the wiz
06-19-2006 9:06 AM


quote:
IOW, I observe God's sayings rather than pleasing cultural fads/political correctness.
Then you must, indeed, believe that women should remain silent in church, that they should not wear expensive clothes or jewelry, and that their judgement is inferior to men's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by mike the wiz, posted 06-19-2006 9:06 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 96 of 112 (325474)
06-23-2006 8:24 PM


bump for Mike
I was wondering, mike, if you might look in on my questions regarding women in church, their clothing, etc., on this thread.
Thanks in advance for your reply.

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by mike the wiz, posted 06-24-2006 9:27 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 108 of 112 (326504)
06-26-2006 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by mike the wiz
06-24-2006 9:27 AM


Re: bump for Mike
quote:
I don't recall the scriptures but perhaps they were addressed to the immediate apostles?
No. Paul's letters were instructions to various peoples which he had, or was hoping to, convert.
quote:
I don't remember anything said about women's judgement being inferior to men's.
(1 Tim 2:13-14 NRSV) For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
Please note the use of the word "for" above. Below is the list of rules regarding women's behavior, and the above statement is the justification.:
(1 Cor 14:34 NRSV) women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as the law also says.
(1 Cor 14:35 NRSV) If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
(1 Tim 2:11 NRSV) Let a woman learn in silence with full submission.
(1 Tim 2:12 NRSV) I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.
Good Christian women, according to the NT, must submit to men, learn in silence, and are forbidden to teach or have authority over any man, because Eve was deceived and became a transgressor.
This is what the Bible directs, mike.
quote:
I know what you're doing, young woman. You're trying to say I have a double standard.
There is no try, mike.
Only do.
And I have.
quote:
That I disregard some biblical musings etc.
Hey, you are the one who said he followed God's rules regardless of "man's way" or somesuch.
There's more...
1 Cor 1:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing
Clo 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
quote:
...I don't go to church but if I did, there might be found the best way, to observe the rules. It might be that there is an inexplicable reason for why things work best under certain guidelines.
Whatever, mike.
Just answer the questions.
Do you follow the Biblical rules regarding women or not?
quote:
For example, men might be right-thumber, and so therefore can preach a better wisdom, or something like that.
In mike-church the women can only wear bikinis, and they can only use tongues.(pun intended)
But it's what God says that counts, not what mike says.
Right, mike.
I just told you what Paul says that God says. I just gave you a whole bunch of unambiguous directives straight from the NT.
Do you accept them or not?
quote:
But what do you say? How would you say I was going wrong as a believer concerning this issue?
As a believer? I have no idea how or if you are going wrong. That's not for me to determine.
But I can tell you that you have a double sandard, saying that you refuse to condone homosexuality because of the Bible, yet ignoring the Bible's repeated and clear commands of women.
In fact, the Bible is much more adamant regading the submission of women to men if the number of times such a directive is repeated is any indication.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by mike the wiz, posted 06-24-2006 9:27 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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