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Author Topic:   Could any creationist explain the DNA-differences from a sudden creation?
Convince-me
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 89 (35211)
03-25-2003 11:52 AM


I stopped believing in a very young earth because of the differences in DNA between different animals. Dogs and wolves are horribly similar in their DNA. When they differ about 0,5% the coyote differ from both of them with 7% in the same DNA-region. And it was a long time ago since dogs split from wolves. Other wild canines differ even more. Its hard to believe in created kinds because cats are more similar to dogs and bears than they are with elephant in their DNA.
Could any created kind-believing creationist explain this to me. Otherwise I will continue to believe that God controlled an evolution and copied a chimp cell to make man. If a creation moment have caused the differences we see and if morphology is correlated to DNA-sequence, why is the gorilla further from the chimpanzee than chimps are to us. And why is the orangutang further from the gorilla and chimp than these are to us.

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Convince-me, posted 03-28-2003 6:13 AM Convince-me has not replied
 Message 24 by peter borger, posted 03-29-2003 9:47 PM Convince-me has replied

  
Convince-me
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 89 (35338)
03-26-2003 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Buzsaw
03-25-2003 7:54 PM


There is no doubt that DNA is far to complex to have arisen by itself!
But if there was a sudden creation of different kinds, humans could have some genes most similar to the elephants corresponding genes and some of the genes most similar to a perch than to other mammals. And God would have created a very small DNA-variation in humans and there would have been a wolf-dog kind and a coyote kind with slightly another variation. If chimps and gorillas started from the same point, then almost all of the human-like alleles went to chimps and non-human-like alleles went to the gorilla just by chance.
The differences does not show that there was a big allelic variation in certain created kinds. It looks like an evolution of the genes.

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 Message 29 by nator, posted 03-30-2003 1:36 AM Convince-me has replied

  
Convince-me
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 89 (35549)
03-28-2003 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Convince-me
03-25-2003 11:52 AM


Still silent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Convince-me, posted 03-25-2003 11:52 AM Convince-me has not replied

  
Convince-me
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 89 (35827)
03-30-2003 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by nator
03-30-2003 1:36 AM


Schrafinator: And you know this how? That's just an Argument from Personal Incredulity. You see it as amazingly compley, therefore god must have been responsible.
Convince-me: I have never heard of a proper explanation of how DNA arose. Can any evolutionist tell me how it happened. Do not only give me a reference(Which is right to do). But also tell me in own words how the nucleotids gathered. I am going to adapt my thinking to the proper facts that exists.
SCHR: What is the definition of "kind"? Specifically, I'd like to know what method or rule to use to tell the different kinds apart. Are domestic cats and Siberian tigers the same "kind"? Are chimps and humans the sam "kind"?
CONV: The definitions of kinds has to do with probability. Either there was ONE or MANY separately created forms. But God must have controlled it if it was one or a few created kinds and in some cases even within a created kind corresponding to a family.
An ape-foetus have a mutation and the concentration of a hormone raises. That makes the hips growing in a special way. But that extra concentration of that hormone could also cause some damage. If not now, there wont be long til a damaging mutation comes. Maybe the third or the 100:th mutation. Gathering mutations is a blind alley. But if God controll this, its OK.
SCHR: So, there is a wolf-dog kind, and a seperate coyote kind? Why do cuyotes get there own kind and wolves and dogs are lumped together?
No, that was a misunderstanding. Ofcourse coyotes have the same ancestor as dogs and wolves. But looking at the differences in certain DNA regions, especially the mitochondrial D-loop there was at least 14 times longer time since the coyote split from the wolves than the dog-wolf separation. 7%/0,5%=14
ref: savo@biotech.kth.se

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Convince-me
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 89 (35836)
03-30-2003 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by peter borger
03-29-2003 9:47 PM


A swedish group is now working with the origin of the domestic dog. The differences according to them is 0,5%(dogs-wolf) and 7%(wolf-coyote) Its in the D-loop of the mitochondrion.
Email: savo@biotech.kth.se
It was interesting what you said about the ZFY-gene with unchanged neutral regions and DNA-sequences not presented on the net. If I should believe that we really was copied from a chimp ancestor (which I right now believe.) I would like to see MUCH of it (The DNA). On ncbi they have very little about the wolf. Either people have not worked with wolves a lot or they have not presented all wolf sequences.
Ill check your references.

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