Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,929 Year: 4,186/9,624 Month: 1,057/974 Week: 16/368 Day: 16/11 Hour: 4/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Did Jesus lie ?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 285 of 300 (358818)
10-25-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by purpledawn
10-25-2006 12:10 PM


Re: Can Doesn't Mean Does
What about when he refers to race?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by purpledawn, posted 10-25-2006 12:10 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by purpledawn, posted 10-25-2006 8:49 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 286 of 300 (358824)
10-25-2006 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Legend
10-25-2006 12:44 PM


Re: let's finish with this silliness
Some Greek text -from the Bible or outside it- using the word "genea" to denote a whole nation or something lasting for 2000 years would have done nicely.
That was provided.
Matt 24:14 uses the word "ethnos" (plural "ethnoi" ) which is rightly translated as 'nations'. No argument there. What's this got to do with anything ?
My point with that was, that the gospel has not yet been preached to all nations yet. Signifying that the end of the age and this generation has not yet come.
?? John thought what he thought. Where's the word "genea" (generation) mentioned here ? How is that related to the evidence I asked you to provide?
Same thing here. It was to signify the end of the age, and show that John knew what was meant by the word generation.
That's exactly what Jesus is saying in the synoptics: "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. " !
Bingo, so if all was not filled, then the word generation means something else, unless Jesus was wrong, and lying.
thanks for the definition - it proves my point! I fail to see any mention of "2000 years"! Or "as long as it takes"!
Instead I see: "A group of individuals born and living about the same time " and "A group of generally contemporaneous individuals regarded as having common cultural or social characteristics and attitudes". (emphasis is mine)
Thank you!
I know what the word generation can typically mean, I have never argued against that. I am showing you that there are alternate definitions, such as the television generation, but again you choose to ignore that, and failed to explain what that means.
It just finished. It lasted about 40 years. We're now into the 'Internet generation', or haven't you noticed ?
Strange, my kids watch TV, not the internet.
As long as there are TV's, we are part of the TV generation.
Just like we are part of a generation that uses fire. That has lasted how long?
Many different adjectives, and promouns can help you define exactly what kind of generation you are speaking of.
How does a television generation fit the description of a period of time between birht of a child, and then the child growing up and giving birth, to start another generation of......family. So in that case you would describe the word generation by saying it is a generation of family, or family generation.
We are part of a generation that drives automobiles. How long will that last?
That uses rails to ride trains,
that flies airplanes,
that goes into space.
If I said we are the space generation, 1000 years from now, if we were still in space, we would still be part of that generation.
The generation that Jesus was speaking of, is the one that would see all those things come to pass. Well, all things haven't passed, so we must still be in that generation. Could it be any simpler?
I mean why bother telling them all that was going to happen, and then send tham out to tell everyone else, if their own generation of people was not going to pass? He must have meant something else. It is plainly obvious to me.
P.S In summary, you haven't provided a single piece of text where the word 'generation' is used to denote a whole nation, 2000 years or something not referring to a specific period in time. On the contrary, you've provided many quotes that show the total opposite (and I thank you for that). Now would be a good time to retract your statement..
There is no way in hell I am going to retract that statement, and as we get further into it, I am getting more convinced that I am right, and you are wrong. I think you are the one who needs to retract. I proved plenty, but you have choose to ignore it, like I said you would(does that make me a prophet?lol). The lexicon clearly states that the word genea can mean race. The Jewish race is still around, so I don't see a problem with the word genea meaning a period of time longer than 30 years. You have failed to even remotely acknowledge it, and that is why the BS meter is pegged to the right. It's almost as if you have an agenda.
Another thing, everyone around here keeps speaking for the author. The author is dead, and can not stick up for himself, or Jesus, and the writing has been translated from a language that is not fully understood. How can any of this arguement be an absolute?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Legend, posted 10-25-2006 12:44 PM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Legend, posted 10-25-2006 6:43 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 290 of 300 (358870)
10-25-2006 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Legend
10-25-2006 6:43 PM


Re: oh for the love of your god!
the 'fire generation' went out of vogue about 10000 years ago, sorry to break it to you.
Two questions.
Why? since we still use fire.
And when did it start?
I like the way you define your own reality! So, in your world we are also part of the 'electricity generation', right?
If you use the noun TV to describe the noun generation, then yes.
Jesus and us we're all part of the 'tree generation',
If you use the word tree to describe generation, then yes.
Does that also mean that Shakespeare was part of the X-generation ? He was using X's in his writings and we're still using them now (here's one: X) , so Shakespeare and us are all part of the X-generation!!
No because the letter X in X-generation is an abbreviation for the word extreme. It represents what the media defines as extreme sports.
IT is a poser generation, but there are a few people who are actually more extreme than the previous generation.
[q]sOh, oh I've got a better one: Neandhertals and us we're all part of the 'cave generation'. They used to live in caves and we now use caves for...errr.. caving I suppose, so there you have it !![/qs]
Only if you use the word cave to describe a generation of people. If you use the word neandhertals and cave people, then you are confusing two different things.
but my biggest question remains: If Jesus used a donkey to enter Jerusalem and donkeys still persist to this very day, does that mean we're all part of the 'Donkey Generation' ?
Only if you use the word Donkey to define the word generation. It's basic English.
What about today's oak tree's? How long have they been around for? Aren't they a generation of trees, and there were predecessor's to the oak tree, and there will be a future genration of oak trees?
How long have they been around.
You are still avoiding the questions I really want answered, and I am not going back to tell them to you again.
Could it be this is what Jesus was referring to when he said "This generation shall not pass.." ?
No. The word to describe what kind of generation Jesus was refering to is the word "this" The word "this" has many meanings, and it would have been better spoken to refer to it as "your generation" if the definition of the word genea is the one you are presenting.
Please, take notice, you only have one definition of the word genea, when it can clearly mean just about anything. One track mind.
But what's going to happen when donkeys become extinct (this generation has passed) and Jesus's prophesies still haven't been fulfilled ?
Nothing because he didn't say the donkey generation, He said "this generation". And before that He explained all the things that must pass before "this generation " must come to an end. So we must still be living in "this generation" or Jesus was a liar.
Sorted!
hardly. I think you have the thickest head yet.
The fact that you are resorting to rhetoric, just shows how you are not sorting anything out.
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Legend, posted 10-25-2006 6:43 PM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Legend, posted 10-26-2006 7:58 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 293 of 300 (358938)
10-26-2006 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by purpledawn
10-25-2006 8:49 PM


Re: Can Doesn't Mean Does
Now if this sentence is spoken to an audience of Jews (race), then it is saying that this generation of this race of people will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. IOW, those now living would not all pass away until all these things have happened.
See the difference?
no.
I don't see how you make the leap, from describing a generation of people, such as the Jewish race, to only those living, at the time the words were spoken. I am not saying it couldn't mean that, I am just saying that it doesn't have to mean that.
Do you think that the disciples thought they were going to be the last generation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by purpledawn, posted 10-25-2006 8:49 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by purpledawn, posted 10-26-2006 7:45 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 296 of 300 (358968)
10-26-2006 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by purpledawn
10-26-2006 7:45 AM


Re: Can Doesn't Mean Does
Even the definition for generation you provided in Message 279 agrees with me and does not support your position of generation meaning something over 100 years for humans.
Why did you leave the the rest of the definition?
Even in biology when one species goes to another, it can be refered to a generation of species.
This is the full definition:
gen·er·a·tion (jn-rshn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "generations" [P]
n.
1. All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor: Mother and daughters represent two generations.
2. Biology. A form or stage in the life cycle of an organism: asexual generation of a fern.
3. The average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.
4.
1. A group of individuals born and living about the same time.
2. A group of generally contemporaneous individuals regarded as having common cultural or social characteristics and attitudes: “They're the television generation” (Roger Enrico).
5.
1. A stage or period of sequential technological development and innovation.
2. A class of objects derived from a preceding class: a new generation of computers.
6. The formation of a line or geometric figure by the movement of a point or line.
7. The act or process of generating; origination, production, or procreation.
Look at the second to last definition, #6. I was reading somewhere, that the aramaic word used for the word genea, may have not always been interpreted correctly.
It seems that the Christians who accept that He was just speaking to those present, feel that the prophcies of that chaptor have come to pass.
I feel like even though those words may, or may have not been written for us, somehow they still apply. Perhaps Jesus knew this, and is part of the beauty of the bible.
What I would like to do is find out if you think Jesus was just speaking to that audience, and not everyone who was going ot read the bible, then why isn't Jesus a liar then? How could He be wrong? Is there room for Jesus to be wrong, and not be a liar? We should start another topic where you guys can explain this.
Also we should not be discussing the contemporary meaning of the word generation, or even the translated meaning of the word definition, and only the ancient greek meaning of the word, or the aramaic meaning of the word.
You also did not answer my question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by purpledawn, posted 10-26-2006 7:45 AM purpledawn has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 297 of 300 (358969)
10-26-2006 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Legend
10-26-2006 7:58 AM


Re: oh for the love of your god!
No comments needed so far. We have entered......the Twilight Zone.
Do you know what a modifier is?
A verb?
A pronoun?
it's not called rhetoric, it's called sarcasm. It's what happens when all meaningful coversation has gone out of the window (along with the semantics of the English language) and the forum rules don't allow you to question your opponent's mental faculties.
Please answer the questions. I am amazed how you totally avoid the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Legend, posted 10-26-2006 7:58 AM Legend has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024