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Author Topic:   Do atoms confirm or refute the bible?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 153 (360171)
10-31-2006 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2006 2:00 AM


Interpretations
I will start the ball rolling with the second verse of Genesis: "And the earth was without form, and void..." 'Without form' clearly implies that the matter of the earth was continuous and not atomic in nature, for if it were atomic (and molecular), it would have the form of the atoms (and molecules) that make it up. Thus, either Genesis 1.2 or the atomic theory of matter is correct, but not both.
I take the verse to essentially be saying that, in the beginning, nothing was there in the truest sense of the word. We may ask with an open palm, "What's in my hand?" Nothing visible is in your hand, but certainly there are oxygen molecules. I take the verse to mean, 'nothing' was there. That's why it says the earth was without form and void. And yes, obviously you would have to extend that to mean atoms.
Am I not understanding your question? To me, it seems like you have correctly interpreted the passage.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 10-29-2006 2:00 AM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Centrus, posted 11-01-2006 2:14 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 153 (360812)
11-02-2006 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Centrus
11-01-2006 2:14 AM


Re: Interpretations
I respect your interpretation. That's fair enough. However, consider the possibility that perhaps you've misinterpreted it? Based on evidence I provided in previous posts, it would seem appropriate that an alternate interpretation is not only possible, but probable. I'll leave you to think about that.
You didn't offer any alternative hypotheses. You just sort of bashed the only one proposed.
Forgive me, but it seems to me that the example you gave, if anything, actually refutes your own interpretation. When we say 'nothing' is in our hand, we are not speaking in an entirely literal sense; as you said, atmoshperic molecules (and a whole host of others) are there. To me, the same applies to the quote in question. Moses described the Earth as formless, yet it may have a form, just one incomprehendible to him, or to his readers. Do you see what I'm getting at?
I guess we could flip that around on you and point out that when you said Hebrew and English are different languages, that their true meanings can be lost in translation. You also have to understand that for anything to have a form, requires atoms. So if it is 'formless' and 'void,' then it seems reasonable to suggest that what Moses was essentially saying is it did not exist until God spoke it into existence. I will certainly grant the notion that perhaps the concept was incomprehensible to Moses as far as he could fully grasp the concept, but that doesn't mean he wasn't clear on his message.
What do you think he meant by this verse?
Even if your interpretation is correct, I'd hardly consider it sufficient evidence for one to boldly state that the Bible rejects atomic theory. Especially when you consider what we're actually dealing with... creation. Thus, we are dealing with God. When considering the text, you must consider Him. God is all powerful, and so perhaps, before the Earth had a definite shape, atoms did NOT exist. Who knows? Personally however, I agree with an alternate interpretation.
How can there be a shape when there is nothing there to make it? In order for something to have a 'shape,' there must be matter displacing space, and all matter is comprised of atoms. So, please explain how there could be a definite shape without atoms? Any other theory to have your cake and eat it too is required of a miracle, which I certainly wouldn't play down. The only problem is, you can't really explain miracles by the scientific method because a true miracle, by definition, goes against natural law.
I think my interpretation is reasonable.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Centrus, posted 11-01-2006 2:14 AM Centrus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Centrus, posted 11-03-2006 2:42 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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