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Author Topic:   internet porn reduces rape
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 7 of 63 (361599)
11-04-2006 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
11-01-2006 8:19 AM


one thing I've observed is that in countries where pornography is easily available, sex crime is a lot lower.
If you go to countries like Greece or Italy where you can go and buy porn at your neighbourhood kiosk with the same ease that you can buy cigarettes or newspapers, you'll notice that sex attacks are very low compared to countries where there is high regulation and limited availability of porn (like the UK).
I suppose it makes perfect sense : why go and attack someone when you can get your kicks in a much easier, safer and more comfortable way at home ?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-01-2006 8:19 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by subbie, posted 11-04-2006 6:10 PM Legend has replied
 Message 12 by nator, posted 11-04-2006 9:51 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 17 of 63 (361863)
11-05-2006 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by subbie
11-04-2006 6:10 PM


I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm simply saying it's not self-evident that more openness toward pornography in general causes a lower sex crime rate.
I agree. On the other hand, I think it does show that high availability of porn does not contribute towards increased rate of sex attacks.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by subbie, posted 11-04-2006 6:10 PM subbie has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 18 of 63 (361872)
11-05-2006 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
11-04-2006 9:51 PM


You are forgetting that a great deal of rape is motivated by a desire to have power over another person and to degrade and humiliate them.
A good deal, that's true. But not all of it. Why can't people accept the fact that some men rape because of sheer sexual frustration. How many times have we read of rapists who lived all their lives with their parents and never had a girlfriend until one day they snap and start stalking the local Hooters girl ?
One of the links supplied by brennakimi in the OP supports the theory that rape is not always about power, but somtimes just about sex. IMHO anything that can act as a sexual release valve for some people, while not harming anyone else, is a good thing.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by nator, posted 11-04-2006 9:51 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 11-05-2006 3:08 PM Legend has replied
 Message 21 by nator, posted 11-05-2006 9:18 PM Legend has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 20 of 63 (361923)
11-05-2006 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by AnswersInGenitals
11-05-2006 3:08 PM


Why do so many religions and societies frown upon, discourage, outlaw, or even criminalize masturbation when it is known to be such a health activity, not only for the individual doing it, but for society as a whole when it suffers fewer unwanted pregnancies and rape?
that's a good point. I think wrt mainstream Christianity it's to do with the self-loathing required to believe that Jesus died for your past and future sins. I sincerely think that if St Paul had the occasional one off-the-wrist the Christian church would have been a much more mellow and pragmatic affair.
Did Ted Haggard ever participate in a circle jerk? (Or does he insist that he just watched?)
I believe he put it in his mouth but didn't inhale (or was that Clinton?)
As long as we're on the topic, why if you are right handed does masturbating with your left hand seem so awkward?
For the same reason you don't toss pancakes with your left hand: you'll often going to miss the pan and you'll end up with a sticky, gooey mess all over your shoes.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 11-05-2006 3:08 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 29 of 63 (362670)
11-08-2006 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by arachnophilia
11-06-2006 10:04 PM


quote:
It is your responsibility to make sure that anyone with whom you have sexual contact is fully aware of the situation and has actively given consent! “Consent” means a voluntary agreement to participate in sexual activity and requires mutually understandable and communicated words and/or actions demonstrating such agreement.
in other words, if you want to have sex with a woman who had a couple you need to bring in Henry Kissinger to negotiate the agreement and the UN to supervise the act itself.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by arachnophilia, posted 11-06-2006 10:04 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2006 5:41 PM Legend has replied
 Message 32 by arachnophilia, posted 11-08-2006 8:57 PM Legend has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 47 of 63 (362918)
11-09-2006 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by crashfrog
11-08-2006 5:41 PM


wow, what a spurt of over-reaction to my comment about the implications of the legal definition for conscent. Someone must have had a bad day!
What, your dick is so important that it's an international crime if it isn't allowed inside a woman?
?? non-sequitir. How the hell did you jump to this conclusion ?
Seriously, I don't understand your perspective. How often do you really think it's going to happen where:
1) a woman you don't know at all is interested in having sex with you;
2) she's so drunk she can't legally consent, but
3) she's sober enough that you don't notice.
First off, (1) is totally irrelevant. The law doesn't differentiate between people who know each other and people who don't. And, just for the record, have you been to a nightclub lately? It's a pretty regular occurrence for a man to find an unknown woman interested in having sex with him, there.
As for (2) and (3) my point is that the law makes it so wonderfully vague and subjective that the alleged victim can easily claim that conscent hasn't been given regardless of what was actually said or done.
Example: you meet someone at a night club, she's obviously been drinking, you take her to your/her home afterwards, you make out, she undresses, lies on the bed and says 'take me now' (a la Kim Basinger in Wayne's World), and you keenly proceed to oblige.
Next day, she goes to the police, claiming you raped her. The alcohol-level in her blood can still be measured. You, on the other hand, cannot prove that she did actively conscent (no witnesses ). Here's what : the police will arrest and charge you. You may be lucky enough to be acquitted at the trial, but by that time you'll have spent a few days in police cells, interrogated, your marriage will be on the rocks, your job too, to cut a long story short your whole life will be in ruins.
See, when a man is accused of a sex crime, the old "innocent until proven guilty" adage goes straight out of the window.
Hence, the need for the Kissigner / UN setup. It's the only way to truly have 'safe sex' these days.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2006 5:41 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 3:47 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 48 of 63 (362922)
11-09-2006 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by crashfrog
11-09-2006 12:10 PM


Re: How far does consent go?
But surely you have to recognize that, if a woman comes out of that experience victimized, surely more occured than simply two people fooling around. With the extent to which we re-victimize rape victims in our legal system, the idea that a woman would emerge from such an experience and think it was a good idea to fabricate a rape charge is mythical, ridiculous.
speaking of victimization, here's one for you . She sounds pretty traumatised doesn't she ? In the meantime the real victim, an innocent man, did time in jail.
mythical?? ridiculous?? wake up and smell the reality mate!
Enjoy,

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 12:10 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 3:50 PM Legend has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 53 of 63 (362939)
11-09-2006 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by crashfrog
11-09-2006 3:47 PM


crashfrog writes:
No, I just don't think it's very funny when some guy thinks he gets to throw a pity party because he's expected to substitute rational judgement instead of sexual entitlement.
again....WTF? I said:
quote:
...my point is that the law makes it so wonderfully vague and subjective that the alleged victim can easily claim that conscent hasn't been given regardless of what was actually said or done.
which of the above do you not understand ?
crashfrog writes:
I'm telling you that when people are very familiar with each other they're able, under reasonable circumstances, to make a judgement about what the other person would consent to, if they were sober.
that's fine. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that the law is setup in the way that conscent is whatever the alleged victim makes it out to be. It allows drunkennes to become a device of accusation and blackmail, while at the same time placing the onus on responsibility solely on the man. Instead of condemning drunken sex the law actively encourages it and absolves women of all responsibility of the consequences.
The video I linked to is the false 999 rape call of a woman who claimed she was raped after fearing she might be pregnant after having drunken sex with a
friend. The falsely accused man spent 10 weeks in jail before the forensics finally cleared him. Ten weeks in fucking jail because people like you think such cases are in the realm of the 'mythical' and 'ridiculous' !
There are dozens of cases like that every year. And these are only the ones we get to know of.
Legend writes:
And, just for the record, have you been to a nightclub lately? It's a pretty regular occurrence for a man to find an unknown woman interested in having sex with him, there.
crashfrog writes:
Ah, yes. The mythical bar slut who always wants it. Boy, some people just can't talk about rape without invoking all the old bullshit, can they?
Now, where did I say that ? I just said that unknown men and women go to night clubs to have sex. You may not like it, it's reality - deal with it! And please don't distort what I write from now on.
jeez...and I thought only the fundies took things out of context!
crashfrog writes:
Why? Oh, right. In your world it makes perfect sense for a woman to endure the rigors of a rape trial for no reason whatsoever.
no reason whatsoever?? here's the reason the woman in the link above had (quoting from the BBC) :
quote:
She invented the story because she feared she could be pregnant after having unprotected sex with railway worker Mr Chisholm.
you want other reasons ? what about hate? settling of scores ? mental illness ?
oh, and before I forget here's another big reason: In Britain we have the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, a government body that holds a large sum of (taxpayers) money which it hands out to victims of serious crime, like...yes you guessed it... rape.
So, to recap, apart from the emotional and mental reasons there's also a very material motivation for someone to be declared the victim of rape. Is that enough for you ?
crashfrog writes:
If a rape happened, why does that seem unfair to you? Oh, right. You're under the opinion that as soon as a woman expresses any interest whatsoever (or even simply gives the appearance of interest), you're entitled to sex with her.
Jeez Louise you have serious issues! Please show me where the fuck I said or even implied that or shut the hell up.
crashfrog writes:
Funny, for all the sexual-entitlement bullshit that guys like you regularly spew, there's absolutely no evidence this is the case. As it turns out, rape is probably the hardest crime to prosecute, and the rate of conviction is very, very low.
Yeah ?!! Try telling this to Mr Blackwell. He spent five years in jail because some mental case said he raped her.
Let me repeat that in case it didn't sink in: FIVE YEARS OF HIS LIFE IN JAIL BECAUSE SHE SAID SO.
..and also because there are people like you out there who live in a self-righteous la-la land where the man is guilty by default and the woman can never do any wrong.
Get real.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 3:47 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 10:17 PM Legend has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 54 of 63 (362944)
11-09-2006 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Silent H
11-09-2006 4:15 PM


holmes writes:
If a person sleeps with someone while drinking and then regrets that choice the next morning, feeling they wouldn't have done so without drinking... that's a mistake. That's their mistake. A person should should not be held accountable for someone else's desires and regrets, only for when they intentionally overpower a person's will.
Thank you! Succinctly put.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the bug and some days you'll be the windscreen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Silent H, posted 11-09-2006 4:15 PM Silent H has not replied

  
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