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Author Topic:   Is belief in God madness in a modern world?
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 90 (372542)
12-28-2006 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rob
12-28-2006 9:13 AM


Scottness starts OFF this thread by misrepresenting others positions
Anglagards comment, when taken into context with all of his comments in the thread, reveal that he is invoking 'reality' (which is absolute by definition) to give solid ground to the accusation that some of us are 'mad' in relation to that ground. But he does so all the while in defense of the position that 'reality' is not absolute, but subjective.
You really need to stop misrepresenting what others have said.
No one has denied that there are absolutes.
What has been said is that so far No One has been able to produce an example of either Absolute Truth or Absolute Morality that stands up to examination.
It is time that you stopped misrepresenting others and actually produce some evidence that is relevant to your position.
In addition, NOTHING in your Original Post is in anyway related to the title of the thread.
Which subject is it you would like to discuss, "Is belief in God madness in a modern world?" or your strawman argument about absolutes?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Rob, posted 12-28-2006 9:13 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Rob, posted 12-28-2006 11:59 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 90 (372735)
12-29-2006 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Rob
12-28-2006 11:59 PM


You are still misrepresenting folk Rob
Well you and Anglagard would not allow moral absolutes to be affirmed in anything but material terms, so that is not possible. But since you brought up absolute truth in general, I will give you two of them in material terms...
1. Reality exists!
2. We will die physically at least once!
I'm sorry but you continue to misrepresent others positions. Really, if you are going to posit someones position you should at the very least try to get it right.
Neither I or anglagard have the ability to either allow or deny you anything. Now logic, honesty, board rules and reason might deny you some of the mental gymnastics you continually attempt, but the most that anyone such as myself or anglagard can do is point them out.
As to the items you mentioned, no one has denied that absolutes exist. However I do think calling those two TRUTHs when speaking of Absolute Truth and Absolute Morals trivializes your point. I was also surprised that as an American you did not point to the Preamble to our Declaration of Independence.
But all of this aside, I still think the title will do if things continue to progress so well.
Well let me try to address the title as opposed to the content of your Opening Post since the two are unrelated.
The title is "Is belief in God madness in a modern world?"
Since I am a Christian there is a high probability that I do not think believing in God is madness.
If we stop at that point, then we seem to be in agreement.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Rob, posted 12-28-2006 11:59 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Rob, posted 12-29-2006 9:17 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 90 (373022)
12-30-2006 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by anastasia
12-30-2006 1:39 PM


Except of course Absolut is Swedish, not Russian.
But that makes as much sense as many of the other assertions in this thread, assertions like "The word of God is Absolute."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 1:39 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 1:55 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 59 of 90 (373045)
12-30-2006 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by anastasia
12-30-2006 3:05 PM


But there is no such thing as "The Bible"
In reference to this sentence, said to be from the very Mind of scottness, I am perhaps wondering if the 'whole concept of the Bible' can be conflated with the Word of God, or aside from that, I will settle for 'Bible'.
It's just a question; Is the Bible absolute, or is a concept absolute?
No conflations provided.
How can the Bible be absolute when there is no such thing as "The Bible".
The Samaritan Bible is only the first five books. Not one word of the New Testament is considered Biblical.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Bible has eighty-one books.
As a mater of fact, the ONLY books that are common to all of the Christian Canons are the first five books.
When there are multiple examples of something like the bible, how can it be an absolute?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 3:05 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 3:35 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 61 of 90 (373049)
12-30-2006 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by anastasia
12-30-2006 3:35 PM


Re: But there is no such thing as "The Bible"
Good. Now, what about 'the whole concept of the Bible'?
How is the 'the whole concept of the Bible' any different than the whole concept of the Qur'an, the Book of the Dead, the Vedas or the Tao Te Ching?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 3:35 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 3:52 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 63 of 90 (373052)
12-30-2006 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by anastasia
12-30-2006 3:52 PM


Re: But there is no such thing as "The Bible"
Well, I seem to remember having discussions about what exactly the whole concept of the Bible is, but..
my question is whether or not the whole concept of the Bible or any book can be called 'absolute'.
Since I don't have a clue what that means I can't answer.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by anastasia, posted 12-30-2006 3:52 PM anastasia has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 73 of 90 (373096)
12-30-2006 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Kader
12-30-2006 6:32 PM


Absolutes do exist.
Can you show any rationale for your belief in absolutes?
I don't think Ringo or Archer or anyone else here denies that some Absolutes exist. There are the examples of mathematics as well as the trivial examples like "any man born will die".
The interesting point is what the implications are of even such trivial absolutes as "anyone born will die".
If you accept that anyone born must die as an absolute, then of course, Jesus death loses any special significance.
Jesus was born therefore, according to the absolute, Jesus would die.
Some folk try to get around it by pointing to crucifixion as something special. Unfortunately, Jesus crucifixion was neither unique or special. At least two others were executed in the same way, at the same time, in the same place as Jesus and it is likely that hundreds were killed the same way the same day across the vast Roman Empire.
Still others try to make Jesus crucifixion something special by claiming he was God. Well, if he was actually divine at the time, then the incident of his death becomes nothing but a fraud and con game. A God cannot be killed by mere humans and even if he pretends to let them kill him, God is eternal and so death is just a pretense.
So Absolutes Exist. Some Absolutes have been presented.
What has not been presented are any examples of Absolute Morals.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Kader, posted 12-30-2006 6:32 PM Kader has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 80 of 90 (373115)
12-30-2006 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Rob
12-30-2006 8:53 PM


To say that God is not absolute would be a contradiction, because he would not then be omnipotent. God must be omnipotent.
Why?
What does this have to do with the topic?
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Rob, posted 12-30-2006 8:53 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Rob, posted 12-30-2006 9:30 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 90 (373119)
12-30-2006 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Rob
12-30-2006 9:30 PM


You keep going on arguing things that have nothing to do with either the thread or the questions asked of you.
The question was why you seem obsessed with absolutes, not whether or not God is an absolute.
You keep posting these long sermons that have nothing to do with either the topic or the questions.
Showing the logic behind my belief in Jesus. That's what the thread topic is!
Really?
What does anything you posted have to do with believing in Jesus?
No one has questioned your belief. They are up to you and you are free to believe anything you want.
The topic is "Is belief in God madness in a modern world?" and some nonsense about a moral realm or something.
Try addressing the topic.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Rob, posted 12-30-2006 9:30 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Rob, posted 12-30-2006 9:54 PM jar has not replied
 Message 86 by Rob, posted 12-30-2006 9:59 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 88 of 90 (373125)
12-30-2006 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Rob
12-30-2006 9:59 PM


Say what?
If someone asks me if Santa claus is gay? Am I required to respond?
Please point out where someone asked you that question.
Now, do you have a legitimate question, that does not conceal a prejudice?
Certainly. Do you have anything to say that is on topic or related to the Original Post?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Rob, posted 12-30-2006 9:59 PM Rob has not replied

  
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