EvC Forum: Is belief in God madness in a modern world?

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Topic: Is belief in God madness in a modern world?

New Cat's Eye

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Message 4 of 90 (372527)
12-28-2006 9:54 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by Rob
12-28-2006 9:13 AM

I think you're mistaken.

But he does so all the while in defense of the position that 'reality' is not absolute, but subjective.

Absolute and subjective are not antonymous.

Absolute:Relative::
Objective:Subjective

There can an objective reality with no absolutes.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 1 by Rob, posted 12-28-2006 9:13 AM		Rob has replied

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	Message 6 by Phat, posted 12-28-2006 10:00 AM	New Cat's Eye has not replied
	Message 13 by Rob, posted 12-28-2006 11:41 PM	New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye

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Message 5 of 90 (372528)
12-28-2006 10:00 AM

Reply to: Message 3 by Rob
12-28-2006 9:53 AM

Re: What did Anglagard mean, in your opinion?

It's just that under the assumptions implicit in materialist philosophies, there is no compelling reason to be good.

Maybe not compelling to you but the existance of moral atheists shows that it is compelling to some. The reason is that it is the right thing to do, in the particular person's opinion, or that it benefits the most people, or that it will make someone hapy. The materialist philosophy's implicit assumptions do not remove the already existing reasons for being good.

As such, the goodness of unknowing naturalists finds it's source purely in the cultural programming they received from a theistic source since past.

I'd need support for that assertion to accept it but it might be off topic and, admittedly, its not of much interest to me.

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	Message 3 by Rob, posted 12-28-2006 9:53 AM		Rob has not replied

New Cat's Eye

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Message 26 of 90 (372749)
12-29-2006 11:42 AM

Reply to: Message 13 by Rob
12-28-2006 11:41 PM

Re: not so fast

However, an absolute is always objective.

quote:
Absolute:
-noun
14. something that is not dependent upon external conditions for existence or for its specific nature, size, etc. (opposed to relative).

quote:
Subjective
-noun
1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective).

It seems that in order to be subjective, it must depend upon the external condition of existing in the mind. So then an absolute exists objectively, but being subjective does not make something relative if it doesn't depend on the subject for existence.

So when your opponent is:

quote:
in defense of the position that reality is not absolute, but subjective.

It does not hurt his position

quote:
that he is invoking 'reality' (which is absolute by definition) to give solid ground to the accusation that some of us are 'mad' in relation to that ground.

I will show that his is a logically incoherent statement.

I think you made a mistake (and failed).

But don’t worry about it.

quote:
We all make unthoughtful comments from time to time. It's more than forgivable .

This message is a reply to:
	Message 13 by Rob, posted 12-28-2006 11:41 PM		Rob has replied

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	Message 27 by Rob, posted 12-29-2006 8:57 PM		New Cat's Eye has not replied

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