The future of marriage

I might agree with that. But how do you equate oral or anal sex with vaginal intercourse? I don't oppose oral or anal or nasal or olfactorial sex, but this is not my idea of how marriages are consummated. It usually takes two different sexes to accomplish vaginal intercouse, according to my biology textbook, and it even says this is how babies are made. Babies are not made by way of oral or anal sex, especially is the sexes are the same. Now, unless I'm missing something here, there would be no technically possible way for gays to consummate their" marriage." Where is the value in that? Where's the equality? As far as I can tell anal/oral sex does NOT equal vaginal intercoursed.”Hoot Mon

Irrelevant and immaterial.The point that Ringo raised was that gays can raise kids in a loving, supportive gay home would certainly be better off than those being shuffled back and forth between foster homes. What type of sexual relationship the parents have has nothing to do with whether they can be good, loving parents.When Ringo was talking about equality, he wasn't talking about equality of sexuality. He was talking about equality of treatment under the law, and societally. If gays can be good parents, they ought to be allowed to do so the same as straights, regardless of which parts they choose to rub against whom.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

What has that got to do with anything?"Equality" means everybody ought to have equal rights under the law - e.g. the right to marry another adult of their choice. It's not about the Thought Police watching who does what in the bedroom. I don't know how to break this to you, but it doesn't matter what you think. Can anybody really be so mind-numbingly ignorant as to "think" that that has anything to do with equal rights?

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He wasn't? You mean same-sex is not equal in the context of sexuality?”Hoot

Okay, Ringo, I am now convinced that Hoot is being deliberately silly.

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But government...is not simply the way we express ourselves collectively but also often the only way we preserve our freedom from private power and its incursions. -- Bill Moyers (quoting John Schwarz)

Maybe. I'll get a troll-bite shot just to be on the safe side.

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Do we get to talk about man-on-dog soon?

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Others have addressed this, but I'd like to add: This is only important to you and one who would be your wife.Unless you'd like to establish some way to be sure that marrieds have sex with each other at least once after their ceremony (in order for them to "officially" consumate...). Not sure how to do that... I guess we could make them do it on camera? HOT.

Or that thing about his sailboat.

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But government...is not simply the way we express ourselves collectively but also often the only way we preserve our freedom from private power and its incursions. -- Bill Moyers (quoting John Schwarz)

Okay, I'll see what I can find.Understand that I support gay marriage rights without reservation: I'm just amused at attempts to keep a social institution exclusive to heterosexuals when heterosexuals are turning their backs on it in record numbers for reasons that appear to have nothing to do with gays. So I was curious about the actual numbers. Personally, I like marriage so much I've enjoyed three, the third currently at a personal best of 20 years.I recently attended a gay wedding in New Orleans performed by a lesbian minister and attended by folks of all sexual stripes. I danced with the groom, the groom, the lesbian minister, another pair of very leather lesbians, some straight guys in stunning drag (performance artists, of course, notorious gender benders), my wife, a beautiful octagenarian artist lady, and, if he had been so inclined, I'd have danced with the dog.Opponents of gay marriage are never able to advance any valid arguments that go beyond the fact that they don't want to see it happen. Invariably, like Hoot Mon, they sooner or later arrive at talking about specific sex acts and orifices because their conviction that we will all be disgusted mirrors their own neurotic need to control the actions of others.

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Oh, please! I take the trouble to lay out a plan to let the gays get married for the good of us all, and what do I get for it? Nothing but grief. I ask for alternatives to save the future of marriage and the family. None! Just a lot of blather. Silly? How about sarcastic? I don't think my opponents here understand how really silly it seems to many people that "marriage" should include a same-sex option. It's not that good ol' man-and-woman tradition that most people seem to value. Indeed it is silly to them (to put it mildly). Go ahead, call them bigots, me too. But I think you're reversely bigoted if you do.So let's talk about saving the future of marriage in a way most people can appreciate. What about the children?”Hoot Mon

No, seriously. Answer the question. You've offered rap music and wardrobe choices as evidence of the dissolution of the American family, but those don't make any sense to me. Kids have been listening to noise and offending their parents looking like reprobates for literally all time. Somehow we survived when you did it to bug your parents. How come it's different, now? How aren't you just being a grumpy old man about it?You don't get to label a question "troll" just because you don't want to deal with legitimate rebuttals to your position.

Very easily, like this - "sex is sex."

Let gay people marry and adopt them.

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Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

quote:

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So let's talk about saving the future of marriage in a way most people can appreciate. What about the children?

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Actually, I'm opposed to state sanctioned marriage to begin with. Civil unions, too, truth to be told, since I don't see any difference. However, as a practical matter, we have a system in place where health care, the determination of who will make decisions for you if you are incapacitated, who will take care of your children, and so forth depend on who you are or are not married to. Until the overall system is changed to something more reasonable, I can't figure out for the life of me why homosexuals shouldn't have the same rights to determine who will inherit their property or who can make important medical decisions for them that heterosexual people have.

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But government...is not simply the way we express ourselves collectively but also often the only way we preserve our freedom from private power and its incursions. -- Bill Moyers (quoting John Schwarz)