Abortion - Moments of (Mis)Conception

i call bullshit. they don't list this person by name, bullshit. further, just because a member of the geological society of america declares that the world is flat doesn't make it so. just because a member of the american political science society declares that no democracy will ever go to war with another (just because they haven't yet doesn't mean bush can't make it happen) doesn't make it so. a single member doesn't mean anything. until their studies are convincing enough to demonstrate to the larger scholarly community a real phenomena, it's just depression brought on by being convinced that they are awful, horrible, evil baby killers. depression is nothing to joke about, but it can cause nightmares and sadness and regret and all these other things that are being lumped into this imaginary disorder. also, you don't have to go to war to have ptsd. it depends on what your experience was and how poorly you adjusted to it. i have ptsd because of my father's illness when i was a child and the abuse i suffered in school. i can imagine that if i admitted to a pastor that i'd had an abortion and spent ten years being counseled by evangelicals about what a horrible, unforgivable thing i had done and being told every year how old my baby would be and shown a picture every day of what my baby would look like and what a dismembered murdered baby looks like that i'd get ptsd as well. but there is no separate post abortion disorder. btw. before you go crazy about that post-partum depression isn't a separate disorder either. it's just depression that happens at a specific time period and is contributed to by specific hormonal and life stresses. the qualifier exists in order to clarify some specific treatment aproaches, but depression is depression.just because evangelicals are mean and unforgiving does not mean that they get to make up a new disorder for the trauma they perpetrate on women's lives.

wow aren't you a heartless fuck.i can't believe that you claim to be a child of my father and yet you laugh at the mistakes of others and decry them as killers. unbelievable. i do not know you.

being someone who suffers very much from very real and devastating psychological difficulties, it personally offends me when people lie about suffering from disorders or make up fake ones. by spreading falsehood, they weaken my chances of having people believe and support me in my problems. it's unexcusable.further, post trauma disorders tend to come from long-term abuse and fear. the only potential exception to this being rape, but if you've ever been raped, you know that it becomes a long term abuse because most people are raped by someone they know and every time you have to see this person, it's like being raped all over again... especially when they don't see it that way as in most date-rapes. a single medical procedure does not fit the symptoms, however, long-term abuse from religious fanatics does.

just because you fail to have a reasonable, competent understanding of how the human mind works does not mean you get to claim that the apa supports your bullshit.

i'm sorry? how did i contradict myself?
you're not even making sense anymore.Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

if you had any idea what you were talking about... the problem is that a case by case basis would necessarily clog up our justice system and place an undue burden on a woman's right to private medical attention just because she has a uterus.not to mention case by case basis would take a terribly long time what with appeals and all and then if she won, that unwanted child that was born in the docket would have to be shoved into our already overstuffed and disfunctional child welfare system while people adopt babies from china.case by case doesn't work. abortion is legal because legalization is the only thing that works. if we taught our children about responsible sexual behaviour instead of calling them sluts, we might have a chance at reducing abortions. making them illegal won't reduce the numbers. we've been through that before. it didn't work. it hasn't worked for thousands of years. so you thought sluts should pay before you found god, congrats. and i was gonna let you blame the church for your denegration of women. you misunderstood me. it is fine to be depressed about a decision you regret. and sure, some women regret having an abortion, because some women don't want them but feel they don't have any other options. but not because they don't know about their "other options". btw, let me tell you how much it pisses me off to have to sign an informed consent waiver to get my depo shot because i'm just a stupid woman and i have to prove that i had things thoroughly explained to me in small words with hand puppets.but. ptsd does not come from regret or depression or a singular procedure. and your post-abortion stress disorder doesn't exist. you don't get a special category just cause jesus said so. if it's ptsd, then it's ptsd. but ptsd comes from long periods of repeated abuse. an example of this could come from badgering by religious (or non-religious. not only you, but lots of other people who are or were not religious oppose abortion for lots of reasons. there's a whole group of millitant feminists who oppose abortion because it destroys the special ability of the woman and allows men to escape responsibility or some crap.) people who insist on beating it into these women how evil they are for what they did.but my concern is that it's either ptsd or standard depression. there is no magical, special abortion disease. i'm glad it seems to you. you with no formal psychological training and clearly no understanding whatsoever of the brain and psychoneurological disorders. your seems is worth nothing. people have been dying of broken hearts for a long time. it's easily explained. a loved one dies and the shock and the stress results in depression. depression results in more stress and often poor nutrition. those who were once active often become sedentary. this all can contribute to heart conditions. frankly, we know very well that intense stress can kill you. an overactive adrenal gland can often be a death sentence. these are very understandable outside of creating a new disorder. this is why you shouldn't read consumer news. it's built for morons. and as much as you are an ass, you are no moron. look up the actual study. it's not hard. go to your local university library and jstor it.but even those bits you describe are depression plain and simple. it's devastating, but we know it and we've already named it. just because we find out new things about it doesn't mean it's not the same bug.also, sleep problems are often associated with other problems. sleep disorders are not. sleep disorders tend to be hereditary or otherwise acquired. sleep disturbance is probably what you are thinking and this is a common complaint and associate of--guess what--depression. trouble falling or staying asleep and night terrors result from stress. sleep disorders tend to be much more insidious like apnea. i'd love to tell you about that some time. it has nothing to do with stress (though it can be aggravated by it) and everything to do with the genes i got from my mom and my grandfather and the limp musculature of my soft palate. this is why when i lived in the dorms and couldn't sing (and exercise my soft palate), i'd wake up not breathing. see? completely different from not being able to fall asleep because i'm anious and didn't take my pill with the luna moth on it.

there's your first problem. real men aren't afraid to own up to the fact that they have emotions and those emotions bring real needs. absolutely there are people in real pain. but the truth is that more women are relieved by their abortion and not ashamed. do you really think that one in three american women lives in crippling depression because of their abortion?but pass doesn't exist just because some women have very real problems of depression. further, demonstrate to me that their depression is not caused by the guilt built into them by dogmatic teaching.depression does not equal a new and special fancy magic jesus inspired disease to make the sluts pay for being slutty and getting away with it.

that's all i'm saying.

because someone lied to them.
why do billions of people believe in the "wrong god"?
because someone lied to them. what precisely did you teach your daughter about sexual responsibility and birth control? what did you teach her about the respect that others should hold about her body? what did you teach her about the fact that she deserves to have a man take responsibility for his contribution to the issue and use his own form of birth control. do you support research and approval of a male birth control pill? how does your daughter feel about her abortion? because, frankly, her feelings in the matter are more important than yours. if you wanted a baby, there are plenty in need of adoption.

you are the one who keeps bragging that you had this position before you found god. you mentioned god; i mentioned back. i don't debate about god either. congratulations, you've accomplished nothing.

i'm not against helping these women. but banning abortion isn't going to help them. nor is calling their depression an imaginary stress syndrome.

as far as i know, god breathed life into adam after he was a fully formed adult male. so, he was never conceived and yet he was human. the scripture supports that it is the breath or soul of god that ensouls man. traditionally, this was believed to happen at the quickening which is what? like 4 months or something? but in the bible, a man who injures a woman and causes her to miscarry is not charged with murder, but required to pay a price of lost property. these are all real biblical evidences that ensoulment does not happen at birth and that abortion is potential unobstructed by scripture. the pro-life argument says "before you were conceived, i knew you." but that means little. souls are supposed to be eternal. if this is the case, then the soul is implanted, i'd imagine after a body has become viable. i'd imagine that really being ensouled would occur upon taking breath. if the soul were to spontaneously generate upon the fusing of the sperm and ovum, then it wouldn't be eternal not emanate from the breath of god, would it?give me real, biblical evidence for your position. this thread is not about what you believe, or how you combat abortion, or how you treat women who have had them, but why your position on abortion is supportable.

they are also more likely to have oral and anal sex and earlier. cause "it ain't immoral if it's oral!" Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

actually, considering that almost everyone on your side of the fence talks about "living souls" and whatnot, we are talking about forcing religious views on others. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

we know you think life begins at conception, you've spent four pages telling us that. now for godsakes give us a reason other than "there has to be a beginning". you don't have the option to not give evidence. that's what we're all about. so put up or shut up.and just because you put that disclaimer about "just because i believe it doesn't make it true" doesn't release you from presenting evidence. follow the forum rules or find another hobby.Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.