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Author | Topic: Noahs ark is a physical impossibility | |||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: Yes. Ever hear of a 4000 year old boat built with one? This is a serious consideration. Assuming the ark had this bit of technology, one would think it would have been used by boat builders in the years after the flood; and used by pretty much everybody, as everybody was descended from people who knew about it. Also, bear in mind, the Bible says nothing about this bit of kit. The Bible mentions a single window and a single door. So adding to the Bible is OK if it buttresses your theology? For a moon pool type of pump to work there must be an opening to the outside and this opening must be large enough that air can come and go relatively unrestricted, otherwise you don't have fresh air mixing with stale air but rather stale air being compressed and decompressed. I don't see any mention in the Bible of an opening large enough to work. I know that some have tried to make "and in a cubit thou shalt finish it above" (Gen. 6:16) into a bow to stern slit 22" wide, but this reading makes little sense to me. Ever hear of a 4000 year old boat the size of the ark? Why not? Surely the descendants of Noah knew how to build boats of such size. But instead, they built nothing remotely close to that size, nor is there any technology that could have been scaled up to that size. The boats would have broken apart. No culture, except the Chinese, have been able to make wooden-- ie, not reinforced with steel-- ships rivalling the ark and the Chinese did it 3500 years later. Now, about the door in the side of the boat... Don't you think this might leak just a bit? There is a reason that few boats have doors in the side of the hull.
quote: Most would have been by the end of a year at sea. And consider, say, baby elephants, they are as big as you.
quote: Either you have never been around babies, or you weren't paying attention. Babies do make a lot of crap. Besides, it wouldn't take much crap to make a 4 or 5 hundred foot boat unbearable and quite dangerous.
quote: So you are in fact saying that every species would have had to have been represented. Dogs are ALL ONE SPECIES, though I'd argue some breeds are pushing the envelope. You have forgotten one major element. Food supply and fresh water. For example, a wolf needs about 2.5 pounds of food daily to survive ( twice that to reproduce successfully ) which means it would need just over 900 pounds of food for a year-- 900 pounds of MEAT no less. How is this stored and where is it stored? Try working out the figures for a few thousand "kinds" and you'll notice that the ark is far above carrying capacity.
quote: That's a good plan. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: LOL.... I like that! ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
Magic? Your solution is magic?
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John Inactive Member |
quote: So your answer is magic? ... that isn't much of a challenge.
quote: Fine. If there is no god, there is no supernatural. Add the two ifs and they poof each other out of existence. If/then statements are only meaningful IF you can support that first clause.
quote: Nope. So must I believe EVERYTHING on the grounds that it MIGHT be true, or believe what I can reasonably infer to be true?
quote: So because we can now send ships into space we should believe that God made thousands of animals sleep for a year in a boat too small to hold them all but too large to hold together?
quote: ummm..... there ain't no documentation. If there was you'd have a point. None of this stuff has ever been demonstrated under controlled conditions.
quote: Its not. The Biblical stuff is just more of the same.
quote: No. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I'm afraid it is. And you prove me right by trying to support that first clause. Lets see what you have to say about that, eh?
quote: I haven't seen a good example of this yet, but you are welcome to take a shot.
quote: Archeaology hardly paints the picture presented in the Bible. There are overlaps but the tales are not the same. The Bible slants the truth towards the people who wrote it, just like all similar cultural epics. And... evidence for supernatural events? Are you serious?
quote: None of which, I am sad to say (truly), has any real evidence behind it.
quote: "Might" is a very big word. Pretty much anything might be true. That doesn't get you a hair closer to finding out what actually is true. You didn't answer the question. So must I believe EVERYTHING on the grounds that it MIGHT be true, or believe what I can reasonably infer to be true?
quote: Yes. I assume it was constucted as per the dimensions in the Bible and I assume the animals were... well, animals and were of normal size, shape, density, etc. That is, I haven't added to or subtracted from what actually appears in the good book. You however have added at least one bit-- that the animals hibernated. It seems reasonable that this would have been mentioned. Perhaps you would also like to endow the ark with TARDIS-like spacial properties as well?
quote: Frankly, credible folk throughout the ages can be shown to have believed utter crap, so this appeal to public opinion falls rather flat. Maybe that is why it is considered a fallacy of informal logic?
quote: Someone is pulling the wool over you eyes. Even ChristianAnswers.net has the sense to not bet on this one.
[qs]Dozens of expeditions to the Ararat region of eastern Turkey, mostly by American Christian groups, have led to numerous claims - but no proof.
Has anyone discovered Noah's Ark? - ChristianAnswers.Net quote: The evidence just isn't there. Unless, of course, evidence of a regional flood 1500 years prior to the creation of the planet counts as evidence, as you appear to think that it does. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
Right.
Newton was an alchemist... Aristotle believed all manner of odd things about animal life... the list goes on... ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
But Schraf,
You take a chimpanzee, give it longer legs, shave it, squash its muzzle, play with its voice box a bit and you have a human. Viola! ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
See! Creationism ain't so bad.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: The point you bring up is not the only problem with the ark. Another problem is that it just wouldn't hold together. But perhaps you should read the thread, much of this has been covered. Now, as for kinds... Lets look at everyone's favorite cruise ship, the HMS Titanic. Roughly calculated, the Titanic contained about 9 million cubic feet. The ark was about 1.5 million cubit feet. Now bearing in mind that the Titanic is 6 times the size of the ark, lets look at its capacity and supply manifest. The Titanic held 3500 people, double loaded. I imagine you could cram twice that on board. Now, for supplies... I've eliminated non-food items like cigars and alcohol.
Item: Amount: Fresh Meat ............ 75,000 Lbs (32.50 Tons) Fresh Fish ............ 11,000 Lbs ( 5.50 Tons) Salt & dried fish ..... 4,000 Lbs ( 2.00 Tons) Bacon and Ham ......... 7,500 Lbs ( 3.25 Tons) Poultry and game ...... 25,000 Lbs (12.50 Tons) Fresh Eggs ............ 40,000 Ct. Sausages .............. 4,500 Lbs ( 1.25 Tons) Potatoes .............. 40 Tons Onions ................ 3,500 Lbs ( 1.75 Tons) Tomatoes .............. 3,500 Lbs ( 1.75 Tons) Fresh Asparagus ....... 800 Bundles Fresh Green Peas ...... 2,500 Lbs (1.25 Tons) Lettuce ............... 7,000 Heads Sweetbreads ........... 1,000 Loaves Ice Cream ............. 1,750 Lbs ( 0.75 Tons) Coffee ................ 2,200 Lbs ( 1.02 Tons) Tea ................... 800 Lbs ( 0.08 Tons) Rice, dried beans, etc 10,000 Lbs ( 5.00 Tons) Sugar ................. 10,000 Lbs ( 5.00 Tons) Flour ................. 250 barrels Cereals ............... 10,000 Lbs ( 5.00 Tons) Apples ................ 36,000 Ct Oranges ............... 36,000 Ct Lemons ................ 16,000 Ct Grapes ................ 1,000 Lbs ( 0.50 Tons) Grapefruit ............ 13,000 Ct. Jams and Marmalade .... 1,120 Lbs ( 0.562 Tons) Fresh Milk ............ 1,500 Gal Fresh Cream ........... 1,200 Qts Condensed Milk ........ 600 Gal Fresh Butter .......... 6,000 Lbs ( 3.00 Tons) Fresh water ........... 14,000 gallons per day
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.20thcenturyliners.com/wsl_titanic.htm These were the supplies needed for one transatlantic crossing, not for a full year at sea PLUS survival until the first crops-- an if-ie project at best after the land was soaked in salt-- matured. So we need to multiply this figure by at least 15. Then we have to consider that this manifest is only for 3500 people. A common estimate I have seen is that the world's species can be reduced to 17,000 kinds. Thus we need to multiply the manifest by nearly 5. This is to fit on a wooden ship of 1.5 million cubit feet along with two of 17000 different animals. It really makes no sense. ------------------
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