How many sons does God have?

Ever hear of the parable of the prodigal son?The father always looks on his children with concern. He will always take them back. "Eternal separation" is a direct contradiction of what Jesus taught. But that isn't what we've "always wanted".The son wants to exercise his free will. He wants to use his resources in his own way. If he happens to screw up, the Father is always there to bail him out."Being away from God" is not the goal. Mocking His laws is not the goal - as we see time after time in these threads, atheists tend to have a better grasp of "God's laws" than Christians do. Raining down invective on God is not the goal.Using the faculties God gave us is the goal. There is no "discipline" for doing that.We are all God's sons, and a son is a son is a son - always.

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Let's look at the prodigal son, yet again. He was born his father's son. He wanted to exercise his free will, to use his inheritance in his own way - and his father allowed it. He screwed up - but he went to his father for help and his father received him back, as a son.The son began a new life - effectively, he was "born again". But he had always been his father's son.Being "born again" is not some magic trick that changes your father. It's the realization - not once but on a daily basis - that you are a son of God, with all the privileges and responsibilities.

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Exactly.The prodigal son was his father's son - he didn't "become" his father's son when he repented. From birth, he was always his father's son. What does spiritual birth have to do with being adopted by a different father?

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That makes no sense. Birth has nothing to do with adoption. Spiritual rebirth is about what happens to the person. It has nothing to do with the father.

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Tenses notwithstanding, Jesus made it clear elsewhere (e.g. Matthew 25) that entry into heaven depends on day-to-day behaviour. Whether event or process, "rebirthing" is not mystical, it's practical.But the topic is "How many sons does God have?" Being "born again" is not particularly relevant.We have to be careful not to mix up the imagery.The father/son metaphor is used throughout the Bible and maybe most directly in the parable of the prodigal son. Some posters here don't seem to be able to understand the simple concept that a son is a son is a son - from birth, always and forever, no matter what. There is no hint whatsoever in the parable that the son "became" a son (in a single event or in a process). He was always a son.If the parable isn't a picture of God's relationship with His sons, what is it's purpose?Another simple concept that seems to escape understanding is the fact that fathers don't give birth. Neither fleshly birth nor spiritual rebirth have anything to do with the father.

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On the contrary, that's the exact context. Jesus was speaking of "all nations", i.e. everybody:

quote:

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Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

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And He refered to them as His "brethern":

quote:

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Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

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There isn't much room for error in that passage. Jesus said pretty clearly that "all nations" are His "brethern", which makes them all the sons of God.Any interpretation of John has to fit within that context.

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No. There isn't.See Message 70. All nations are Jesus brethern, hence God's sons.I'm tempted to say "QED". Instead I'll say In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, Amen.

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If it's so clear, show us in the text. That's not what I'm saying - there's nothing about "growing into the position of son". Having to "earn" the position would completely negate the whole father/son idea.

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"Children of the devil" is obviously figurative, since "the devil" is nobody's father, either by creation or sperm donation. It's like calling our own earthly children "little monsters".It doesn't negate what Jesus said in Matthew 25. All nations are gathered before Him for judgement. He refers to all of them as "these my brethern".You have claimed that there are exceptions. Show us in the text.Edited by Ringo, : No reason given.

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I have asked you twice now to back up your claim that Jesus was not speaking to "all nations" when He spoke of "these my brethern". If ya got anything, roll it out. We don't need a whole new thread to cover one small point.I've made my case pretty clear. You have said nothing to refute it.

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A person might say "my children" in the sense of "my biological children" - as opposed to "my second husband's biological children". Or she might say "my children" in the sense of "all the children I have raised" - biological, adopted and foster.The context is relevant in individual statements, but if we want to know who the person really counts as her children, we have to look at the broadest statement.

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Jesus is speaking to the individuals that He is judging. When He speaks about "these my brethern", there is no other "these" that He could be referring to. There is no group singled out from "all nations".No matter how exclusive you want to be, the text simply does not support your notion that "these my brethern" are different from "all nations".

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You're being silly.Jesus said, "these my brethern". He didn't say, "this group, starting with this guy and ending with that guy - all the others are excluded."When there are no specific exclusions the word "these" applies to all present.Unless you can actually point out in the passage which group is excluded from "all nations", you have no case.

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What part of "point out in the passage" do you not understand?There is no "group that came with Jesus". There is only "all nations" and "these my brethern". No distinction is ever made between the two - there is one group only.Your horse is dead. I see no reason to pulverize it further.

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Of course there's more than one usage. My point is that you can't take the narrowest meaning and exclude the broadest.If Jesus even once included "all nations" as "His brethern", you are not entitled to prefer an alternate usage.

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