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Author
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Topic: How many sons does God have?
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 19 of 151 (407392)
06-26-2007 1:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 17 by ICANT
06-26-2007 1:08 AM
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Re: Eternal separation
But who is a child of God and how do you become one? Everyone is a child of God and you don't become one, you ARE one.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by ICANT, posted 06-26-2007 1:08 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 21 of 151 (407397)
06-26-2007 2:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 20 by kbertsche
06-26-2007 1:52 AM
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Re: Eternal separation
Yeah, one of the beautiful things about the Bible is its inconsistency. If you read all of John 1, for example, you will find:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. So God made all of us, we are all his children.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by kbertsche, posted 06-26-2007 1:52 AM | | kbertsche has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 24 of 151 (407400)
06-26-2007 2:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 23 by ICANT
06-26-2007 2:27 AM
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Re: Eternal separation
That's not what the Bible says or even Christian Doctrine. Read John 1 or maybe you might have even heard of the Nicene Creed.
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen. I'm sorry ICANT but the God you worship is either incompetent or cruel. There are no other possibilities.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by ICANT, posted 06-26-2007 2:27 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 30 of 151 (407488)
06-26-2007 1:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by kbertsche
06-26-2007 1:04 PM
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Re: Eternal separation
Well, a parent is responsible for his child, regardless of whether or not the child accepts the position. As I pointed out, even John acknowledges that God creates all that is, seen and unseen.
In the context of John 1-3, it seems to be speaking of a relationship, including the benefits of such a relationship (e.g. inheritance). Well, the child inherits UNLESS the parent actively disinherits the child. So under your scenario it is GOD that must disinherit the child. Even then, there are limitations placed. A parent cannot abandon the responsibility of providing for the child or the child's welfare.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by kbertsche, posted 06-26-2007 1:04 PM | | kbertsche has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 34 of 151 (407554)
06-26-2007 7:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by kbertsche
06-26-2007 6:26 PM
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Re: Eternal separation
You are assuming that everyone starts life as a child of God. Again, this is true in one sense, but not in the sense that John uses the term "child of God" in John 1-3. So what? It really is irrelevant to the topic. If it is true in one sense, it matters little otherwise. The whole thread is pretty silly anyway. John can be quotemined to show a limited scope for the use of "Child of God" yet John can also be used to show that God created all men. If God created man, then man is a child of God and God is responsible for those children. God can disinherit certain of his children, but that then is an act of God and requires that God be the one choosing who is disinherited.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by kbertsche, posted 06-26-2007 6:26 PM | | kbertsche has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 36 of 151 (407571)
06-26-2007 8:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by kbertsche
06-26-2007 8:39 PM
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Re: Eternal separation
According to you, but not according to John. Are we trying to understand what the Bible really means, or only what jar WANTS it to mean?
Huh? Just above that statement didn't you say the following?
It's not "quotemining"--it's pretty clear from the grammar and context that John teaches BOTH of these points.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by kbertsche, posted 06-26-2007 8:39 PM | | kbertsche has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 37 by kbertsche, posted 06-26-2007 10:56 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 39 of 151 (407853)
06-28-2007 9:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 38 by ICANT
06-28-2007 8:50 PM
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Re: You ARE one
If everyone is a child of God how did these people get to be a child of the Devil? They became Biblical Christians, Televangelists and Pastors. But they are still the Sons of God. God cannot get off that easily, he cannot abandon his children as so many Christians Pastors do today. You have read John haven't you?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 8:50 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 42 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 9:33 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 41 of 151 (407858)
06-28-2007 9:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 40 by ICANT
06-28-2007 9:16 PM
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Re: Re Son
That is totally irrelevant and again, simply misrepresenting the Bible. What does being a Son of God have to do with seeing the Kingdom of God? And being Born again is no one time magic Get outta Hell card, it is something you do every day of your life. Too bad most Biblical Christians are so clueless.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 9:16 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 44 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 10:23 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 43 of 151 (407861)
06-28-2007 9:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 42 by ICANT
06-28-2007 9:33 PM
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Re: You ARE one
Jesus was, after all, a Jew speaking to Jews. The Biblical Christians are the Pharisees of today. Were Jesus to return today would he call the Biblical Christians, particularly many Christian Pastors, Sons of God?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 9:33 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 10:59 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 45 of 151 (407869)
06-28-2007 10:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 44 by ICANT
06-28-2007 10:23 PM
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Re: Re Son
Everything. If you can't see it you sure can't enter it. Irrelevant. The question has NOTHING to do with any "kingdom" but rather how many "Sons of God" there are.
If everyone is fleshly born sons of God, why does God have to give them power to become the sons of God? Maybe the author of John should read John? Got me? But we are all also the Spiritual Sons of God. God creates the soul as well as the body.
John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. You might want to read the rest of John, because even the next line changes the meaning of what you quoted. You really should read John 2 as well.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 10:23 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 48 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 11:38 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 47 of 151 (407873)
06-28-2007 11:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by ICANT
06-28-2007 10:59 PM
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Re: Pharisees of today
I would say 96% have not experienced the spiritual birth that Jesus said: "ye must be born again" to get. Every day in every way we are born again. It is not some spiritual voodoo, it is what we do. Being born again has nothing to do with what you believe, what you profess. Being Born again, and again, and again, is a daily, moment by moment series of decisions, of actions.
Everyone is not the sons of God. Jesus is going to say: "I never knew you". I think that means, you were never my brother, therefore you were never a son of God. I don't doubt that is what you believe, but it is certainly not supported by the text. Being a Child of God is not based on beliefs, but rather actions, behavior. In Matthew 25 it is Jesus followers, would be Christians, that are the Goats.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 10:59 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 55 by ICANT, posted 06-29-2007 12:04 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 51 of 151 (407879)
06-28-2007 11:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by ICANT
06-28-2007 11:38 PM
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Re: Re Son
Sorry ICANT but that is not what either the Bible or Christian Tenets say. I quoted John for you. I can also point to the Nicene Creed, the "I believes", where it says:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen. We are all Sons of God, created by God.
I assume you are referencing verse 3 and saying that God is continually creating humans at the rate of 250 live births and 87 aborted births per minute, and stating all these are sons of God. Trotting in yet more irrelevant nonsense as usual, I see. I assume you can point to where I brought up abortion. So you are claiming that "God ended His work." If so, then God too is irrelevant, unimportant and worthless. Interesting God you created there ICANT. Even you, ICANT, are a Child of God.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2007 11:38 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 54 of 151 (407883)
06-29-2007 12:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 53 by Buzsaw
06-28-2007 11:54 PM
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Buz, you still misrepresenting what the Bible says.
Buz writes: As has aleady been correctly stated and documented by scriptural text, in order for procreated flesly mortal humans to become sons of God there must be a spiritual birth i.e. Greek genethe from above i.e. Greek anothen. John 3:3. Here is what John 3:3 actually says.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Please point to the words "Son of God" in John 3:3. Buz, do any of you Biblical Christians actually read the Bible?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by Buzsaw, posted 06-28-2007 11:54 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 57 by ICANT, posted 06-29-2007 12:31 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 56 of 151 (407886)
06-29-2007 12:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 55 by ICANT
06-29-2007 12:04 AM
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Unrelated irrelevant nonsense.
To be a son of God you must be born again. Being born again is not some onetime thing. It is something you do, that you do daily, minute by minute, action by action. Works don't earn salvation, that has been freely given to all, believer and non-believer. It is a done deal and totally irrelevant to being a "Son of God". BUT... We are charged to try to do what is right, try not to do what is wrong, to honestly evaluate our actions and acknowledge when we have done wrong, try to make amends and try not to repeat past mistakes. We WILL be judged on that. I have posted both passages from the Bible and from the Nicene Creed showing that GOD is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen. God created us. We are his sons. My position is pretty well documented in this and other threads. The audience can read and come to their own conclusions.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by ICANT, posted 06-29-2007 12:04 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 66 of 151 (407924)
06-29-2007 10:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 57 by ICANT
06-29-2007 12:31 AM
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Re: Buz, you still misrepresenting what the Bible says.
By saying you Bibical Christians does that mean you are some other kind of Christian? Damn right. I am a Cradle Creedal Christian. By Biblical Christians I generally refer to those Christians who seem to think that 2 Timothy 3:16 is referring to the Bible and implies some inerrancy.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by ICANT, posted 06-29-2007 12:31 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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