Noah's Flood Came Down. It's Goin Back Up!!

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Based on what we know about gases in general, we can pretty much be sure that the Earth's climate will never behave they way you're describing.

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..........Unless the supernatural dimension kicks in as the prophecy states, that two men have the power to cause it not to rain on earth for 3 1/2 years. That doesn't mean it won't rain at all but the implication is that there is global drought these three and a half years because a third of the trees burn up, the grass burns up and there's bigtime famine.

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They all fall down, eventually. It's called "orbital decay". It's the slight friction of the rarified atmosphere over time that robs them of the velocity the need to stay up.

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My point was that if they can stay up any length of time, the canopy can stay up indefinitely, and then it doesn't have to depend on speed to stay up there. The climatic conditions keep it there.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Buz
The request for the complete details of the calculations was directed at crashfrog not you.

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Ok Ned. Thanks for clarifying that.

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It is not an insult to call someone ignorant of something. It is not the same as stupid. No one knows everything about everything so we are all ignorant to some extent.

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You made sound like nothing I said made sense, when in fact in spite of all the sophisticated formulas, most of what I've said stands unrefuted.

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How likely is it that what you learned in high school will have taught you all you need to know about this area? Not likely at all is the answer. Your posts prove this and saying so it isn't a "low blow". You should take it as a warning that you need to be less arrogant and listen to what you're being told.

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Arrogant? Am I suppose to shut up and let you all spout off stuff that few readers understand to make them think you all have all the answers in a bag? A lot of what this is all about is good ole common sense and imo, you can't annihilate common sense and commonly understood laws of physics with your hi fi formulas.

Exactly. You are correct.
A minimum temperature of 262 degrees F will keep 1% of the present volume of the oceans suspended as vapor, either for the pre-Noah guys or for these two anti-rain tribulators.
I just don't think Methuselah and Co. enjoyed the weather all that much.

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:Buzz
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Howdy dudy n wowdy dowdy!! Talk about a problematic imaginary dream up. At least my story has a supernatural mind capable of making it happen. The folks that dream up this stuff and the ones who believe it are the ones of wild faith and imagination. Imagine, it's all froze up, it thaws it's self out, cooks itself up n out pops all this intricate, complex, orderly, beautiful amazing life. Smother the story in eons of time and lualla, you got a following. Aaaaaamazing!!
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Rocky:
Oh please - did you actually read the article at all?

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Yah, and in a satiresqe nutshell the above is what it says.

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Did you notice that the scientists built up the hypothesis using EVIDENCE?

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Yah, about a penny's worth of evidence for every ten dollar's worth of story.

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.....so if they only evidence you have for your theory is the "prophesies" of the Bible, it cannot withstand any kind of rational debate and your credibility is almost nil.

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You haven't been reading well and assimilating have you Rocky?
1. The prophecies of the past being accurately fulfilled implicates fulfillment in the future.
2. The forest fires and heatup trend adds to the implication of prophecy fulfillment.
3. To that I've explained in some yet unrefuted common sense terms how under the right conditions it could happen.
4. My hypothesis includes the supernatural which whether or not one believes, would fill in where natural laws are insufficient, the most significant being the heating and drying up of the planet, causing widespread significant evaporation. The prophecy clearly implicates the supernatural here.

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Please bear in mind that Snowball Earth is still only a hypothesis. It is certainly not set in stone, and it has been heavily debated since it was first proposed. Can you even admit that your idea is only a hypothesis too, as it rests on such feeble evidence?

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Feeble evidence? And this is suppose to have scientific evidence?? "..... it's all froze up, it thaws it's self out, cooks itself up n out pops all this intricate, complex, orderly, beautiful amazing life."

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But no, that would be impossible - because that would leave it open to debate, and introduce the idea that the Bible could be wrong.

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It's all been open to debate for a long time and holding up quite well.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 06-06-2003]

OK, and you think you aren't arrogant?I'm sorry but the topic you are talking about is atmospheric physics. If you want to use this as a mechanism for the flood you do have to understand it, the formulas and the results of the calculations.I'm not an atmospheric physicist but I understand what crash has posted. I don't understand it well enough to be sure he is right but I cann't see anything that looks out of line.The history of science has been the annihilation of common sense by fancy formulas. Formulas which help make modern 85 % accurate 5 day weather forecasts, determine the yield of atomic bombs, allow the construction of the computer you are using and more and more and more.
If you common sense is in disagreement with these hi fi formulas then your common sense is most likely wrong.Try this though to do without the formulas1) If you want to hold something up it will push down right? If it is heavy it will push down hard. That is common sense.
2) 1% of the ocean is heavy it will push down hard.
3) To push it back up you have to push up hard. For a gas to push back hard it has to be under greater temperature and or pressure (unless you know another way)
4) All you're left with is to figure out how much greater a temperature or pressure that will be. Since you don't have the time do do the experiments to determine this then you use published results.Crash did that, Noah is cooked.

Ned, specifically, in uderstandable street terms, what of my statements have been refuted by formulas here, and how so?

If the supernatural kicks in, all bets are off. If you're just going to resort to the supernatural, why bother trying to support your ideas with science? At that point it's just religion in science clothing. And we've used fifth-grade physics to show why this can't be scientifically true. If you think it'll happen anyway, that's a point of religion, not science.

Wait, what? Which calculation did I make? I've been pretty careful to avoid actual calculations because my familiarity with physics is highly casual. If I've talked about calculations, I've been referring to the calculations of others, not any that I myself have made. Sorry if I haven't made that clear.

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Exactly. You are correct.
A minimum temperature of 262 degrees F will keep 1% of the present volume of the oceans suspended as vapor, either for the pre-Noah guys or for these two anti-rain tribulators.
I just don't think Methuselah and Co. enjoyed the weather all that much.

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Simple as that aye? Over how long a time span did it rise and to what height did it go, creating what density?? Imo, you've gotta factor in that data in order to make a determination of temperature. I believe it would also depend on whether the evaporation was global or local, as the global evaporation would take less heat to create the balance of greenhouse effect and insulation from direct sunlight. The prophecies imply a global drought, since all nations are happy when the two men effecting it are killed.

Now I understand. Coragyps has been doing the calculating, not me. Much as I'd love to take credit, but...

What is refuted is the whole "canopy" idea. You can't hang that water up there unless you cook everything below.If you put the water into orbit first then the energy it give up one re entry is really awful.

Sorry Coragyps, I didn't check back to the actual source.

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If the supernatural kicks in, all bets are off. If you're just going to resort to the supernatural, why bother trying to support your ideas with science? At that point it's just religion in science clothing.

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Did you read my opening post of the thread? If so, you knew from post one that that was a factor. This isn't something I've popped on you in desperation. This hypothesis has a prophetic premise, but has much to do with natural laws, the industrial revolution and climate as to how it is implemented.

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And we've used fifth-grade physics to show why this can't be scientifically true. If you think it'll happen anyway, that's a point of religion, not science.

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Please refresh me. Which post number/numbers refuted which of my statements by grade five physics?

Hold on to your hat! You getting very carried away without knowing much. Might I say "again"?The snowball earth idea is very new. I'm not sure I'd call the evidence feeble but the whole thing isn't very firmly established is for sure. The end dates is about 600 million years so it isn't surprising that being sure of a global (not just local) ice age that far back is going to take a lot of work gathering more evidence.
This is a prime example of just how careful the process of science is, it is conservative and doesn't, in spite of your opinion, jump to conclusions very quickly. That's why when they are arrived at they are much harder to shake than they might be.Now, the whole snowball earth thing is really a non sequitor anyway. A red herring that we shouldn't have gotten into discussing. It was just suggested to you, I think, that if you wanted a global catastrophe that somehow sort of involved water then you could pick that. There aren't any other choices.

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What is refuted is the whole "canopy" idea. You can't hang that water up there unless you cook everything below.

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If you put the water into orbit first then the energy it give up one re entry is really awful.

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To be fair, you gotta get specific. Which statements of mine have been soundly refuted by which formulas?