EvC Forum: Anti-theistic strawmen?

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Topic: Anti-theistic strawmen?

ringo

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Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 41 of 145 (425253)
10-01-2007 2:15 PM

Reply to: Message 35 by Archer Opteryx
10-01-2007 12:46 PM

Re: treating childish theism as theism = strawman

Archer Opterix writes:

Here's my nomination for an 'anti-theistic strawman':

Critics of theism often compare a childish idea of theistic belief with an adult idea of its rejection.

If there are theists with a childish version of theism, how that a strawman?

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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This message is a reply to:
	Message 35 by Archer Opteryx, posted 10-01-2007 12:46 PM		Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 43 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-01-2007 2:19 PM	ringo has replied
	Message 68 by Archer Opteryx, posted 10-02-2007 7:27 AM	ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 44 of 145 (425256)
10-01-2007 2:32 PM

Reply to: Message 43 by macaroniandcheese
10-01-2007 2:19 PM

Re: treating childish theism as theism = strawman

brennakimi writes:

because it does not illustrate the full range of theistic thought when it claims to.

Does it claim to illustrate the full range though? Or does it only address the dangerous part of the range? If the man has a few straws on his shirt, I wouldn't call him a strawman.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 43 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-01-2007 2:19 PM		macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 45 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-01-2007 2:39 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 46 of 145 (425258)
10-01-2007 2:47 PM

Reply to: Message 45 by macaroniandcheese
10-01-2007 2:39 PM

Re: treating childish theism as theism = strawman

brennakimi writes:

it seems to me that some think that all of the range is dangerous.

Then it cuts both ways. We shouldn't be using a strawman of "anti-theism" in a discussion about anti-theism.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 45 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-01-2007 2:39 PM		macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 47 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-01-2007 2:56 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 48 of 145 (425260)
10-01-2007 3:01 PM

Reply to: Message 47 by macaroniandcheese
10-01-2007 2:56 PM

Re: treating childish theism as theism = strawman

brennakimi writes:

... the use of this generalization of theism *is* part of the discussion here and part of the particular threads referenced in this sub-discussion.

Fair enough. Just dotting the t's and crossing the i's.

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	Message 47 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-01-2007 2:56 PM		macaroniandcheese has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 75 of 145 (425429)
10-02-2007 10:10 AM

Reply to: Message 68 by Archer Opteryx
10-02-2007 7:27 AM

Re: treating childish theism as theism = strawman

Archer Opterix writes:

It's a strawman if one takes a childish version of an idea as the definitive and comprehensive representation...

Has it been demonstrated that "one" does that?

... of an idea that includes far more than this....

Has it been demonstrated that it does include more?

The same thing is at work when creos attack a scientific idea as misunderstood or misrepresented by popular journalists rather than as defined by scientists.

The difference between real science and popular science is well documented. The difference between "adult theism" and "childish theism" is not.

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	Message 68 by Archer Opteryx, posted 10-02-2007 7:27 AM		Archer Opteryx has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 95 of 145 (425537)
10-02-2007 5:08 PM

Reply to: Message 85 by macaroniandcheese
10-02-2007 4:07 PM

brennakimi writes:

dawkins is a biologist. he can't possibly refute god with any authority.

I think an argument from authority is especially baseless here. The idea that anybody could be an authority on God seems like childish theology to me.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 85 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-02-2007 4:07 PM		macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 99 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-02-2007 5:35 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 102 of 145 (425548)
10-02-2007 5:46 PM

Reply to: Message 99 by macaroniandcheese
10-02-2007 5:35 PM

brennakimi writes:

my assertion here is that --aside from anyone's ordinary philosophizing-- no one can refute god.

If you're going to put us all in the same "no one" boat when it comes to refuting God, how can you separate childish theology from mature theology? How is one person's ordinary philosphizing distinguishable from another's?

This message is a reply to:
	Message 99 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-02-2007 5:35 PM		macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 106 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-02-2007 5:54 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 108 of 145 (425558)
10-02-2007 6:08 PM

Reply to: Message 106 by macaroniandcheese
10-02-2007 5:54 PM

brennakimi writes:

quote:
how can you separate childish theology from mature theology?

i think it's some rubbish about considering multiple sources and cultural insights and experience rather than charisma and good feelings.

Sooo... there's no way to tell the "strawman" from the real man? Then no strawman has been demonstrated, as I've been saying all along.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 106 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-02-2007 5:54 PM		macaroniandcheese has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 133 of 145 (426409)
10-06-2007 2:30 PM

Reply to: Message 129 by Hyroglyphx
10-06-2007 12:55 PM

Re: Zeal - religious or non-religious fervor

nemesis_juggernaut writes:

...the Nazi's danced to the music of Wagner (pronounced - Vogner).

They danced to Strauss. To Wagner, they marched.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
	Message 129 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-06-2007 12:55 PM		Hyroglyphx has not replied

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