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Author
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Topic: Kingdom on Earth (Re: Barack Obama comments)
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Winning the votes
i'm personally quite disappointed and even more concerned because i can't find any elaboration on what he said or what he meant. so i'm gonna post some links and my thoughts on them specifically and then open the floor for a discussion of this concern of mine. It sounds like he's trying to win votes to me. Most candidates do this out of necessity. Even if they are mildly religious, or totally non-religious, they have to appeal to that crowd in America. I think in general, both conservatives and liberals were taken aback when matters of faith and morals took primacy in 2004. I'm a little unclear, though, on what exactly he said that irritated you. Can you elaborate on the point? Are you upset that he used religious terminology? Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : Edit to add
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 7 of 308 (427024)
10-09-2007 2:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 2 by Taz
10-09-2007 12:58 PM
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Throwing away your vote
Obama is the reason why I may actually vote republican next year, but I still don't know what you are talking about. In chat, maybe a week ago, you mentioned your loathing of Obama. This kind of took me by surprise. What took me even more off guard was that you stated that you might actually vote Republican. There are other Democrat candidates though. Do you think that you will be throwing your vote away for a Democrat candidate who you will believe will end up losing?
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2 by Taz, posted 10-09-2007 12:58 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 9 by Taz, posted 10-09-2007 2:32 PM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Re: Winning the votes
i'm absolutely terrified by anything whatsoever that resembles in the slightest theocratic language. celebrate your faith, but don't talk about building any kind of kingdom. the point of our country was to avoid a monarchy of any sort like THE PLAGUE. i'm further irritated that it was so half-assed a comment. i'm personally annoyed by people who refuse to make a real committment and dance around shit. Well, for face value, I can't disagree with you for being slightly disgusted by people who say things just to win votes. But I guess that is politics for you. As for being afraid of theocracies, I think you needn't be concerned with Obama's. His "let's make a heaven here on earth," smacks of a very careful and deliberate phrasing attempting to appeal with religious folk, and yet, soft enough not to offend his irreligious fan base. It reminds me when Kerry stated that while he considered himself religious, he didn't wear his religion on his sleeve. Like Kerry's speech, it sounds like very carefully chosen words to not to offend either group so that he can get both votes.
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 12 of 308 (427038)
10-09-2007 2:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 9 by Taz
10-09-2007 2:32 PM
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Re: Throwing away your vote
I don't know if he will be losing or winning. But the fact that the democrats can't find someone better. Well, I don't think its so much that they can't find anyone better, so much as it is that not very many people are willing to take on that level of responsibility. Being a president, while it certainly has its frills, must be more stressful than anything I could imagine. Many people in office are just not willing to invest that much of their lives to such a demanding job. I always wanted Colin Powell to run. I think he's a quiet man with incredible resolve and wit. I think he has the knowledge and temperament to be a great president, who will rise above the politics of politics. But, he isn't willing to be president. There's nothing I can do about that. Unfortunately, with many people who run for president, they have megalomaniacal tendencies, IMO. They really, really just want to be the Boss. It seems many of them are more interested in their personal motives for being president, than running a nation effectively. The latter almost seem like a perk to them. As far as Democrats go, I wouldn't stab myself in the eyes if Obama were to become the next president. I think he's intelligent and genuinely concerned with the country. At the same time, I think he's prone to platitudes instead of actual solutions. I also feel that he is inexperienced. But I do have some respect for him, nonetheless. I'm curious as to why you don't. And more than that, why you think none of the Democrat candidates are no good. Joe Biden? Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : No reason given.
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by Taz, posted 10-09-2007 2:32 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 19 of 308 (427097)
10-09-2007 7:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
10-09-2007 5:01 PM
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Re: Throwing away your vote
Ok, you've changed my mine. I'm not going to vote next november. Aw, come on now... You have to vote. I feel like I should give the obligatory, patriotic message of, get out there and vote. There are decent candidates out there. You just have to look. Believe me, I'm not exactly jazzed by the candidates either, but even if you have to choose a lesser of two evils, at least you'll be doing your part.
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by Taz, posted 10-09-2007 5:01 PM | | Taz has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-09-2007 7:09 PM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 22 of 308 (427121)
10-09-2007 10:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
10-09-2007 7:09 PM
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Re: Throwing away your vote
No, you don't, and if there's a danger that, in the voting booth, you'll vote to "send a message", you probably shouldn't. If for no other reason, Taz will have no right to complain about the next president, should (s)he be as bad as he believes Bush was.
Think for a second about what Taz is talking about doing. He's so incensed about the idea of politicians ignoring human rights that he's going to lodge a protest vote... for the candidate that has the worse record on human rights. I don't think Taz was going to vote for a Republican. Okay, maybe Ron Paul. But Ron Paul is your Jar type Republican, which, in my opinion, is no Republican at all. But in either case, I think he just needs to go to as many websites as he can to get an estimation about who is lobbying for what, and where they stand on an issue. In fact, I think I should just go ahead and do that for everyone.
I think I got everyone on the card. Tommy Thompson, Republican of Wisconsin, has dropped out of the race. Also, according to Biden's website, Richardson has dropped out of the presidential race to join Biden's team (presumably because he knows that he'll probably lose, and this way he can at least be Vice Pres). But I confirm that as of yet. Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : edit to fix html tags Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : Edit to add info
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-09-2007 7:09 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Re: Throwing away your vote
thanks for the platform post. No problem 
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 28 of 308 (427135)
10-09-2007 11:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by nator
10-09-2007 10:57 PM
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Re: Winning the votes
quote:
I think in general, both conservatives and liberals were taken aback when matters of faith and morals took primacy in 2004.
Bullshit. The republicans knew exactly what they were doing when they got conservative Christians in a lather about gay marriage in all of the swing states. Meeeeeeow! Simmer down Nator. I think you may have misunderstood me. What I was speaking about was that for the average voter in 2004, values turned out being the big issue of that election cycle. Nobody realized that it would have weighed so heavily an outcome.
Oh, and just so you know? I've ALWAYS been a "morals/values voter". So have all of my Liberal friends. Fantastic... I never said you weren't.
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by nator, posted 10-09-2007 10:57 PM | | nator has not replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 29 of 308 (427136)
10-10-2007 12:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 27 by crashfrog
10-09-2007 11:28 PM
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Re: Throwing away your vote
Oddly enough there exists no accrediting or licensing body to enforce the Complaining Laws, or to make sure that complaining is only done by those qualified to do so. So Taz's ability to complain for the next 4 years will hardly be hampered in any way by not voting. Sure, if he doesn't vote he can still complain. But I'm gonna mention the fact that he opted not to vote, thus nullifying his reason for doing so. The reason being, if you don't contribute to getting in a good president, then as far as I'm concerned, you don't have reserve the right to bitch and moan.
I agree. I would rather Taz make an effort to educate himself about the issues, and make reasonable determinations for himself about which of the candidates best represents his views, as opposed to not voting. Yeah, and I seriously doubt that Taz, despite his saying so, would actually vote Republican. Maybe Ron Paul. But Ron Paul is to the Republican party, what Joe Lieberman is to the Democrat Party.
But sorting through politics isn't everybody's cup of tea. No, it certainly isn't. And to be honest, I don't particularly enjoy it either. I've really been slacking in this election cycle. I posted that info as much for myself as I did for everyone else. I need to do some homework too.
Well done, very thorough. Perhaps too thorough. I don't think Al Gore is running, or will run. I'm pretty sure he's been in the race for awhile now. After what happened in 2000, I think he wants back what he felt was entitled to him then. Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : edit to and fix typos
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 10-09-2007 11:28 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 10-10-2007 12:27 AM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 43 of 308 (427277)
10-10-2007 6:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by Buzsaw
10-10-2007 1:02 AM
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The Obama/Osama connection?
Methinks Obama may very well still be a Muslim. Islam teaches and practices lying if it's for the advancemnt of Islam. The possibility exists, sure, but what specifically leads you to believe that he is a Muslim in sheep's clothing?
Methinks the kingdom Obama is referring to is none other than the Islam global kingdom that Islamic leaders intend on establish as per past and present violent aggression but certainly he's never going to say so. I think he's just trying to win votes by playing as many sides of the field as possible.
Imo, this man has been set up by Ben Ladden or the Saudi Wahabis or the Iran Shihites to become president of the US so as to advance Islam in the US and worldwide as well as to end the US support for Israel etc. What??? What would lead you to believe something so lofty? Again, does the possibility exist? Yes. But is there any good reason to believe that? The magnitude of this postulate requires a collusion factor up there with the Trade Center conspiracy theories.
It will not surprise me if Obama becomes the next president of the US despite his lagging position presently. Perhaps he's got some cards in his hand to trump Hilary, being she has a lot of dirdy baggage in her closet from the shenanigans of the Clinton administration. He is already proving to be the thorn in the side of Clinton. At this rate, the Democrats are so divided in their allegiance that they're beginning to cancel one another out.
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2007 1:02 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 52 of 308 (427883)
10-13-2007 11:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
10-12-2007 11:49 PM
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Re: The Obama/Osama connection?
Imo, there's got to be more than coincidence that a junior statesman no more known by most Americans than you or me would suddenly rise up to be a leading contender for president. You stated earlier that you believe that bin Laden personally brought him in to office. Being that Osama began working in politics in Illinois since 1997, it would mean that bin Laden has been grooming Obama for a long time now. Have you ever given thought to how difficult it would be for a man of his stature to communicate with bin Laden and not get caught?
Question: Why after being indoctrinated as a young child and later as in a Muslim school funded by the Wahabe Saudis transferred to a Catholic school, later to profess Christianity in public given Islamic law as per the Koran teaches that apostates should be killed aa do Islamic fundamentalists today? Where are the Muslim threats on him as would be expected by the fundamentals? So because no one, to your knowledge, has given him death threats, his must somehow mean that he's actually in cahoots with Muslim extremists? That would mean that not just groups like Al Qaeda are aware that he's really a mole, but that the average Muslim knows this too, but somehow every intelligence agency is unaware. Does any of that really sound realistically true? Lastly, I don't think Obama has ever been a Muslim. His Kenyan father was allegedly raised as a Muslim, but is as secular as Obama is. Its only been fairly recently that he has been affiliated with a church.
"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 10-12-2007 11:49 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 57 by Rrhain, posted 10-14-2007 7:45 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied | | | Message 206 by Buzsaw, posted 12-10-2007 8:59 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 80 of 308 (436591)
11-26-2007 6:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Taz
11-26-2007 2:13 PM
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Re: The Obama/Osama connection?
The monkey thing was partly a pathetic attempt at using Nem_Jug's logic. Oh, yes.... Just mention my name to exonerate yourself.  I suppose I am a convenient whipping boy.
During the now era, Nem_Jug continually remarks rape and murder everytime the topic of gay sex comes up and then turns around and bluntly denies that he was comparing gay people to rapists and murderers. If others can do it, why can't I? Because you still don't understand my argument. Well, I suspect you do know what I'm saying, but its convenient for you to intentionally misrepresent my argument as a way to better your own stance. My argument is one of moral equivocation. If homosexual marriage is fine, then why shouldn't beastiality, pedophilia, or any other stance we currently find taboo? That's my argument. But does this mean that you did intend to call Obama a "monkey" on the basis of his race? Lastly, you've been very vague about why you don't like Obama. Spill the beans dude. What is your beef with him? Of all the Democrat candidates, he's the one I'd least likely gouge my eyes out over should he win. I suppose I could survive with Biden as well. Then again, maybe that's saying a lot about why you don't like him. Afterall, if NJ doesn't find him totally disagreeable, that might a good indication that he's the wrong candidate for you. Since you live in Illinois, maybe you have a deeper insight on the man than IL non-residents. So what's the deal? What did he do that was so egregious?
“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Taz, posted 11-26-2007 2:13 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by nator, posted 11-26-2007 6:26 PM | | Hyroglyphx has replied | | | Message 88 by Taz, posted 11-26-2007 8:41 PM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 82 of 308 (436594)
11-26-2007 6:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 79 by Silent H
11-26-2007 4:52 PM
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Voting abroad
Unfortunately I think the American public has voted for much worse, many many times in the past... including this last Prez election. When you were living in the Netherlands, were you able to vote abroad since you are a US citizen, or did you have to relinquish that? Also, were you able to vote for any Dutch government officials since you were living there, or did your non-citizenship disqualify you?
“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by Silent H, posted 11-26-2007 4:52 PM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 86 by Silent H, posted 11-26-2007 7:48 PM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 83 of 308 (436595)
11-26-2007 6:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by nator
11-26-2007 6:26 PM
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Re: The Obama/Osama connection?
CONSENT Once would have sufficed.
“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by nator, posted 11-26-2007 6:26 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by nator, posted 11-27-2007 6:46 AM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member
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Message 84 of 308 (436601)
11-26-2007 6:54 PM
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Reality Check
I've found what appears to be an unbiased, non-partisan website that details all of the flip-flops made by all the candidates. Seems like the writers have done a lot of homework for a fact-checking mission, which is ultimately to all of our benefit http://realitycheck08.org/
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