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Author
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Topic: Super Evolution and the Flood
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DrJones*
Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: 08-19-2004 Member Rating: 7.6
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Re: List o' mammals
I don't know anything about DNA testing, but it seems it would have to be very accurate.
It is usually 99.999% accurate.
It is about the same as what we call species today that are the original kinds
So then Noah's arc would have to be incredibly huge wouldn't it?
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod MinistryLive every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by graft2vine, posted 03-01-2008 6:54 PM | | graft2vine has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 63 by graft2vine, posted 03-01-2008 11:32 PM | | DrJones* has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Re: List o' mammals
graft2vine writes: So, go ahead and proceed Taz... I don't have any better suggestion than what I presented earlier about using Arc capacity to determine kinds.
Are you saying there really was a superevolution involved between now and 6 thousand years ago that produced all the species today?
I don't know anything about DNA testing, but it seems it would have to be very accurate. I mean, if they have a margin of error of 5%, then they could conclude the chimp to be your dad.
Just so you know, for someone like myself that actually have worked in a genetics lab and did regular work on DNA testing, this comment demonstrates ignorance on an annoying level.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by graft2vine, posted 03-01-2008 6:54 PM | | graft2vine has replied |
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graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4985 days) Posts: 139 Joined: 07-27-2006
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Message 63 of 173 (458761)
03-01-2008 11:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 61 by DrJones*
03-01-2008 7:10 PM
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Re: List o' mammals
So then Noah's arc would have to be incredibly huge wouldn't it? I believe it was a local flood, and yes it is a huge boat even by today's standards.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by DrJones*, posted 03-01-2008 7:10 PM | | DrJones* has not replied |
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graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4985 days) Posts: 139 Joined: 07-27-2006
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Message 64 of 173 (458762)
03-01-2008 11:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 62 by Taz
03-01-2008 7:10 PM
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Re: List o' mammals
Are you saying there really was a superevolution involved between now and 6 thousand years ago that produced all the species today? Not in my view, which is an old earth creation, local flood view. Now from a YEC view, I don't know if superevolution is required. I have not measured the available space in the ark, how many species there are, or could fit, so that's why I've taken interest in your thread. Edited by graft2vine, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Taz, posted 03-01-2008 7:10 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 65 of 173 (459245)
03-05-2008 12:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 25 by Taz
02-26-2008 11:35 PM
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Re: List o' mammals
Boy, did this thread die fast without me trying to keep it above water. I've been very very busy lately. Only about 30 minutes a day of free time to go on the internet, and I'd rather use most of it reading news. Ok, so since there hasn't been any objection from YECs, I take it that my last list of mammals is acceptable. Here it is again. Acouchi Anteater Ape Armadillo Badger Bat Bear Beaver buffalo Camel Capybara Caracal Cheetah Chinchilla Cow Deer Degu Dog Elephant Elk Ferret Fox Giraffe Goat Guanaco Hippo Horse Hyena Hyrax Kangaroo Koala Leopard Lion Manatee Mole rat Monkey Mouflon Mouse Oryx Peccary Pig Platypus Porcupine Possum Prairie dog Rabbit Raccoon Rat Rhino Rock cavy Sheep Shrew Skunk Sloth Squirrel Tapir Tazmanian Devil Tenrec Tiger Vicugna Wolverine Zebra Let us move on to reptiles. Anole Chameleon Crocodile Gecko Horned Lizard Iquana Skink Snake Tortoise Turtle You know what, off the top of my head I can't think of that many "kinds" of reptiles. I'd appreciate some help.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by Taz, posted 02-26-2008 11:35 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2332 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: 05-10-2003
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Message 66 of 173 (459272)
03-05-2008 10:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 65 by Taz
03-05-2008 12:27 AM
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Encyclopedia of Life
Taz, I found a great site that may help with some of your work here.
Encyclopedia of Life EoL writes: Welcome to the first release of the Encyclopedia of Life portal. This is the very beginning of our exciting journey to document all species of life on Earth. Comprehensive, collaborative, ever-growing, and personalized, the Encyclopedia of Life is an ecosystem of websites that makes all key information about all life on Earth accessible to anyone, anywhere in the world.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by Taz, posted 03-05-2008 12:27 AM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 67 by bluescat48, posted 03-05-2008 12:49 PM | | Asgara has not replied | | | Message 69 by Taz, posted 03-06-2008 12:38 AM | | Asgara has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 67 of 173 (459277)
03-05-2008 12:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Asgara
03-05-2008 10:42 AM
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Re: Encyclopedia of Life
Very excellent site. Will be even better when they get more info on the minor phyla.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Asgara, posted 03-05-2008 10:42 AM | | Asgara has not replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 68 of 173 (459282)
03-05-2008 2:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 65 by Taz
03-05-2008 12:27 AM
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Re: List o' mammals
You know what, off the top of my head I can't think of that many "kinds" of reptiles. I'd appreciate some help. Depends on where you want to go with this. To conserve space on the Ark and if Creationists involk super-evolution then we can wittle all reptiles to 4 "kinds": Lizard, serpant, crock and turtle. From your list Anole Chameleon Gecko Horned Lizard Iquana Skink are all "lizard kind," Tortoise Turtle are "turtle kind." crocks alligators are the "crock kind" and finally rattlers boas pipes cobras Satan vipers elapids kraits all "serpent kind"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by Taz, posted 03-05-2008 12:27 AM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 70 by Taz, posted 03-06-2008 12:42 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied | | | Message 73 by Blue Jay, posted 03-06-2008 6:28 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 69 of 173 (459339)
03-06-2008 12:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Asgara
03-05-2008 10:42 AM
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Re: Encyclopedia of Life
Uh, not all of us are literate in the art of scientific names for animal. I'd rather we work with common names.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Asgara, posted 03-05-2008 10:42 AM | | Asgara has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 70 of 173 (459340)
03-06-2008 12:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 68 by AZPaul3
03-05-2008 2:19 PM
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Re: List o' mammals
AZPaul3 writes: To conserve space on the Ark and if Creationists involk super-evolution then we can wittle all reptiles to 4 "kinds": Lizard, serpant, crock and turtle.
Who said anything about conserving space? Remember that the YECs have always argued that there is this barrier between different kinds that prevent them from interbreeding. For example, a horse and a donkey are in fact the same kind because they producea mule. YECs generally don't talk at all about saving space on the ark. So, I'm going to take a leap of faith here and say that a kind is simply animal that can't possibly mate with another kind. I'm also making a leap of faith that anything that looks like a snake can mate with anything else that looks like a snake, making all snake species in one kind. Same goes with turtles. But a croc mating with an iquana... that's a little too much to ask. Remember that we have to make this as favorable to YECs as we possibly can without crossing this barrier between different kinds of animal.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2008 2:19 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 71 of 173 (459358)
03-06-2008 9:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 70 by Taz
03-06-2008 12:42 AM
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Re: List o' mammals
But a croc mating with an iquana... that's a little too much to ask. No problem. Crocs are already in the "croc kind" and iguanas are already in the "lizard kind." So we only need 4 kinds of reptillians.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by Taz, posted 03-06-2008 12:42 AM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 72 by Taz, posted 03-06-2008 11:10 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 72 of 173 (459363)
03-06-2008 11:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 71 by AZPaul3
03-06-2008 9:51 AM
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Re: List o' mammals
Then what do you make of a chameleon? How about the skink? Bearded dragon?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by AZPaul3, posted 03-06-2008 9:51 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 75 by AZPaul3, posted 03-06-2008 6:38 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: 02-04-2008
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Message 73 of 173 (459382)
03-06-2008 6:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 68 by AZPaul3
03-05-2008 2:19 PM
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Re: List o' mammals
AZPaul3 writes: To conserve space on the Ark and if Creationists involk super-evolution then we can wittle all reptiles to 4 "kinds": Lizard, serpant, crock and turtle. This is what I was talking about when I wrote this ( message 38):
Bluejay writes: Also note that, the more different the things are from us, the more tendency we have to "lump" them into larger and larger groups. Although people would likely call "jellyfish" one kind, jellyfish actually constitute an entire class of organisms (which would be the equivalent of citing a single "mammal" kind). Tigers and wolves can't be a single kind, but sea turtles and box turtles can, even though they're more different from each other. In order to support the idea that reptiles can be whittled down to 4 kinds, Creationists would have to invoke a lot more super-evolution than even magic-believers could swallow. To get today's ~9000 species of reptiles from 4 would take a full team of sorcerors several hundred years of round-the-clock study and spell-casting. I would argue that lizards need to be subdivided (on the basis of reproductive isolation, and on the basis of their being more different from one another than wolves and tigers): monitors chameleons Gila monster geckos glass lizards iguanas skinks horned lizards I would submit at least five turtle kinds: tortoise sea turtle terrapins side-necked turtles softshell turtles Crocodilians could be just one (groan) Snakes need at least these five kinds: boas vipers cobras blind snakes garter snakes Also, tuataras are distinct from any of the groups listed, mandating an additional group. Edited by Bluejay, : None of anybody's business.
There was a point to this [post], but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind. -modified from Life, the Universe and Everything, Douglas Adams
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2008 2:19 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 76 by AZPaul3, posted 03-06-2008 6:55 PM | | Blue Jay has replied |
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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: 02-04-2008
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Message 74 of 173 (459383)
03-06-2008 6:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 70 by Taz
03-06-2008 12:42 AM
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Re: List o' mammals
Taz writes: Who said anything about conserving space? The dimensions of the Ark are known: they're written in Genesis 6. Any theory Creationists would put forward would have to take this into account if it is to be taken seriously.
There was a point to this [post], but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind. -modified from Life, the Universe and Everything, Douglas Adams
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by Taz, posted 03-06-2008 12:42 AM | | Taz has not replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 75 of 173 (459385)
03-06-2008 6:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 72 by Taz
03-06-2008 11:10 AM
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Re: List o' mammals
Then what do you make of a chameleon? How about the skink? Bearded dragon? Lizard, lizard and lizard. I think I'd make a good creationist.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by Taz, posted 03-06-2008 11:10 AM | | Taz has not replied |
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