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Author
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Topic: Super Evolution and the Flood
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 5 of 173 (457883)
02-26-2008 2:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 3 by randman
02-26-2008 12:21 AM
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Please see message 17 for a modified list. randman writes: Just a point of clarification: YECers do not state that Noah put 2 of every species. That's a bogus claim.
Ok, let's just forget this idea of species. Let's name as many animal that could not possibly interbreed with each other as we can. See if we can name all the "kinds" out there. Let's start with mammals: -Kankaroo -Dog -Lion -Tiger -Hippo -Elephant -Possum -Rat -Mouse -Racoon -Tazmanian Devil -Golden monkey -Chimpanzee -Baboon -Orangatan -Horse -Gorrilla -Squirrel -Whale -Dolphin -Fox -Hyena -Canine -Bear -Rhino -Cheetah -Leopard -Walrus -Seal -Dugong -Zebra -Horse -Tapir -Guanaco -Camel -Peccary -Pig -Vicugna -Deer -Addax -Mouflon -Gaur -Antelope -Oryx -Rabbit -Elk -Goat -Sheep -Fox -Badger -Wolverine -Orca -Bat -Platypus -Girrafe -Armedillo -Walrus -Manatee -Shrew -Koala -Anteater -Cow Those are just off the top of my head. Notice that I ignored all the species like black bears and polar bears. Just just said bear. For now, let's stick with mammals. Can someone else help me add to this list before we move on to non-mammals like reptiles, birds, etc.? Edited by Taz, : Added some more mammals as they came to me. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 12:21 AM | | randman has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 7 of 173 (457885)
02-26-2008 3:04 AM
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Reply to: Message 6 by randman
02-26-2008 3:01 AM
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I want a comprehensive list of the "kinds" that creationists often bring up. Let's see if we can name as many animal as we can that cannot possibly interbreed with one another. Since creationists don't accept the idea of species, let's go with "kind". For now, let's try to come up with the mammals first. We'll move onto other things like reptile, bird, insect, etc. later on. After this, we will get an idea of just how many animal Noah brought into his ark. Added by edit. People, please just ignore the fact that we have no definition of "kind". Let's just stick with the common sense idea of what kind is, which is the animal that cannot interbreed with other "kinds". For example, dog "kind" can't interbreed with cow "kind". We'll just lump all the bear species into one comprehensive bear "kind". The goal is to see if we can come close to the number of animal on Noah's ark. Edited by Taz, : No reason given. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 3:01 AM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 3:06 AM | | Taz has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 9 of 173 (457887)
02-26-2008 3:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 8 by randman
02-26-2008 3:06 AM
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randman writes: But there are some YECers out there conducting science that might have a theoritical list.
Well, let's have this theoretical list, then.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 3:06 AM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 10 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 3:18 AM | | Taz has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 11 of 173 (457890)
02-26-2008 3:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 10 by randman
02-26-2008 3:18 AM
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Well, since you're a creationist, perhaps you would like to find this list and present it here? I have a list of a million former creationists who are now satanists. If you provide your list, I will provide my list of these former christian creationists that are now baby eating satanists.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 3:18 AM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 12 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 3:25 AM | | Taz has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 13 of 173 (457893)
02-26-2008 3:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 12 by randman
02-26-2008 3:25 AM
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Hang on, so you don't believe that the world wide flood happened and that it was responsible for the geologic features we see today? If indeed you don't believe in this, why are you in this thread? The OP clearly refers to YECs.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by randman, posted 02-26-2008 3:25 AM | | randman has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 15 of 173 (457895)
02-26-2008 3:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by iano
02-26-2008 3:38 AM
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iano writes: You a YEC Taz?
For the sake of argument, for now yes I'm a YEC. That said, let's get back to our list of mammal "kinds".
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by iano, posted 02-26-2008 3:38 AM | | iano has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 20 by ICANT, posted 02-26-2008 5:04 PM | | Taz has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 17 of 173 (457926)
02-26-2008 11:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 5 by Taz
02-26-2008 2:58 AM
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Official list of mammal "kinds" on the ark
I have modified the list to show that all apes are ape kind and monkeys are monkey kind. I've also alphabetized the list to make it easier to read. -Addax -Anteater -Antelope -Ape -Armadillo -Badger -Bat -Bear -Camel -Cheetah -Cow -Deer -Dog -Dolphin -Dugong -Elephant -Elk -Fox -Gaur -Giraffe -Goat -Guanaco -Hippo -Horse -Hyena -Kangaroo -Koala -Leopard -Lion -Manatee -Monkey -Mouflon -Mouse -Orca -Oryx -Peccary -Pig -Platypus -Possum -Rabbit -Raccoon -Rat -Rhino -Seal -Sheep -Shrew -Squirrel -Tapir -Tazmanian Devil -Tiger -Vicugna -Walrus -Walrus -Whale -Wolverine -Zebra Edited by Taz, : fix spellings
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by Taz, posted 02-26-2008 2:58 AM | | Taz has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 22 of 173 (457989)
02-26-2008 5:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by ICANT
02-26-2008 5:04 PM
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Re: Re-Whale
Ok, I have removed everything that even remotely look like a deer and just clump them into deer kind. I've also removed aquatic mammals. People, remember that these just came off the top of my head. I'm sure you can add to list some mammals that I don't know about or haven't thought of. We're making progress. We are one step closer to knowing just how many animal were on Noah's ark. -Anteater -Ape -Armadillo -Badger -Bat -Bear -buffalo -Camel -Cheetah -Cow -Deer -Dog -Elephant -Elk -Fox -Giraffe -Goat -Guanaco -Hippo -Horse -Hyena -Kangaroo -Koala -Leopard -Lion -Manatee -Monkey -Mouflon -Mouse -Orca -Oryx -Peccary -Pig -Platypus -Possum -Rabbit -Raccoon -Rat -Rhino -Sheep -Shrew -Squirrel -Tapir -Tazmanian Devil -Tiger -Vicugna -Wolverine -Zebra Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by ICANT, posted 02-26-2008 5:04 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 25 of 173 (458054)
02-26-2008 11:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by molbiogirl
02-26-2008 11:02 PM
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Re: List o' mammals
Haha, what the hell are you talking about? I want a list of mammal "kinds" that were saved by Noah. Extinct mammals don't count. Mammal species don't count. That's why I said "ape" instead of all the ape species out there. For now, don't argue with the concept of "kind" and "species". Just play along. Just use your common sense and add to my list of "kinds" of mammals on the Ark. Ok, from your short list, I've added onto my comprehensive list of "kinds". Notice that I've taken out things that can swim (obviously, if they could swim then they could survive a world wide flood) and things that belong to already listed kinds like panda because a panda is a bear. Acouchi Anteater Ape Armadillo Badger Bat Bear Beaver buffalo Camel Capybara Caracal Cheetah Chinchilla Cow Deer Degu Dog Elephant Elk Ferret Fox Giraffe Goat Guanaco Hippo Horse Hyena Hyrax Kangaroo Koala Leopard Lion Manatee Mole rat Monkey Mouflon Mouse Oryx Peccary Pig Platypus Porcupine Possum Prairie dog Rabbit Raccoon Rat Rhino Rock cavy Sheep Shrew Skunk Sloth Squirrel Tapir Tazmanian Devil Tenrec Tiger Vicugna Wolverine Zebra Keep them coming, guys. We are now a little closer to the list of mammal "kinds" that Noah had on his ark. Edited by Taz, : No reason given. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by molbiogirl, posted 02-26-2008 11:02 PM | | molbiogirl has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 27 of 173 (458056)
02-26-2008 11:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by ICANT
02-26-2008 11:55 PM
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Re: Re-Whale
I already removed all aquatic and semi-aquatic mammals.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by ICANT, posted 02-26-2008 11:55 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Re: List o' mammals
bluescat writes: You have ferret & wolverine which are both weasels which you don't have
A wolverine is a weasel? I've always thought of a wolverine as this really really mean creature while a ferret is a house pet. To the rest of you people. You misunderstand my intention. I'm trying to make this list as favourable to YECs as I possibly can. Screw what the bile literally says about all kinds being saved. Let's just assume that some of them became extinct in the flood. Ok, back to the list. Try to think of the mammals that definitely can't interbreed with other mammals. Tonight, I will assume that the list we have then will be the list of mammals Noah had on his ark. I will then move on to reptiles. After reptiles, then birds. Then, hopefully by then our resident YECs will have already showed up and help us with our list. I can't wait till we get to the creepy crawly things like insects and arachnids.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by bluescat48, posted 02-27-2008 7:51 AM | | bluescat48 has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 34 of 173 (458107)
02-27-2008 10:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Percy
02-27-2008 9:53 AM
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Re: List o' mammals
Percy writes: Squirrels and mice should just be rodents.
While merging lions and tigers I can understand, squirrels and mice can't be merged. YECs also claim that there is a boundary to which kinds could never interbreed with other kinds. I'm pretty sure squirrels and mice can't breed with each other. Neither can echidna and platypus.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Percy, posted 02-27-2008 9:53 AM | | Percy has replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 52 of 173 (458265)
02-28-2008 12:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 37 by Percy
02-27-2008 12:13 PM
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Re: List o' mammals
Percy writes: Give 'em a break and drop the interbreeding requirement.
I can't. If we drop this part of it, might as well say Noah brought on-board a male and female of the mammal "kind".
"Kind" has never really been defined, so why should you be the one to do it?
So far, no YEC has objected to my attempted definition yet, so I must be doing something right. Added by edit. Guys, instead of complaining and nitpicking, why not help me compile this list? Try to make it as favourable to the YEC's claim as possible. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Percy, posted 02-27-2008 12:13 PM | | Percy has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Re: List o' mammals
graft2vine writes: Bearing in mind a pair of all unclean animals and seven of all clean. From there you can whittle your list down to figure out how much evolution YEC's would have to believe.
We've already been down this route. I think the last time we tried this our resident YECs objected to this.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by graft2vine, posted 02-28-2008 1:54 AM | | graft2vine has not replied |
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: 07-18-2006
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Message 59 of 173 (458636)
03-01-2008 11:00 AM
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Bump
I don't get it. Usually when we point out that there are way too many species of animal for Noah to have on his ark, we get like a kazillion objections from YECs saying Noah had kinds on the ark instead of species. The purpose of this thread is to give the YECs a chance to present us a list of kinds, or probable kinds, on the ark. What happened to all the YECs all the sudden? Note: I will begin listing possible reptile kinds tonight... or tomorrow, depending on if I have the time or not.
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