|
Understanding through Discussion |
|
|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
| Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
| Author | Topic: Why Lie? (Re: Evolution frauds and hoaxes) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days)  Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Flea writes: I think there is a huge difference between pig teeth being similar and good models for study in relation to man, and mistaking one as an “intermediary” or “missing link” in human evolution. Remember, they werent trying to pass it off as human, but as proof of evoltuion or a common ancestor. You say this has nothing to do with creationism, but all the sources that I can find that agree with you are creationist sites. The creationists seem to think this tooth, declared to be a pig's in 1927, is of great relevance to modern biology. When you find something not written by a flat earth hillbilly, then it's different. Wiki's no particular authority, but, for example:
quote: And:
quote: What's interesting is that the creationists seem to desperately want this to be a hoax, whether it was or not. It seems to be an important part of creationist theology, or something. In reality, you seem to need to believe that there are the many, many hoaxes of your O.P. I think you should list them all. I want you to show that just 1% of the fossils that have been identified by evolutionary paleontologists are frauds. That means you've got a very, very long list to make out.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Coyote writes: I've been trying to get five forgeries, while spotting Piltdown Man and Archaeoraptor. Can't even get one additional forgery. I've donated number three, with some sweet irony in it:
quote: From here Good, eh! And now, I reveal dinosaur hoax number 4.
Remember this?  And: I think that some of the Paluxy River "humans with dinosaurs" footprints were carved out, so that could be number five, and, thanks to me, Flea wins. But I'm sure you don't mind. {I've heard rumours that Lithographia Wirceburgensis is still a standard textbook in creationist schools}
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
True, the second one is pretty bare, only accompanied laughing smilies, so I'll expand on it here. It's self explanatory, really, and it's a very good link for people who had not heard of that particular hoax/experiment before. The page I linked to describes the original joke, and links to the original here
The reason I refer to it as an experiment is because it did have a scientific reason behind it, as the author explains here:
quote: quote: The team perpetrating the hoax behaved like scientists, and kept a careful record of the reactions to their joke/experiment, which made it all the more interesting. It was deliberately outrageous, rather than designed to fool reasonable people. I wonder how long the author of this thread would have believed this non-existent character:
"Stefan" writes: Hello. My name is Stefan. My last name is not important, but my story it is. I have a incredible story to tell, which is being hushed up by scientists and goverments all over the world. Darwin's theory of the evolution of species has been disproved. But everyone is covering it up. I kept some photographs of this event, and now I am telling the world. An American friend is helping me post this story to the internet. It is the only way I could think of to get these amazing facts out before it is too late. I don't know how long I can keep this web cite up. I use my own words so it is my story. Sorry about not perfect english. It begin when I became visiting grad student to America, from where I was studying at University of Heidelberg. I came to work with my paleontology professor, Dr. Heinschvagel, who is a expert of dinosaur studies. We came to New Mexico in the South West, and worked in the Morrison Formation, over 140 million years old. Every day we would leave the student quarters in Albuquerque, and travel about 70 km north west to the cite. It was hardly winter there at all. They said this year was dry. And so we worked early in the year, and in late February of 1999, we made a discovery that shakes the world. We found a fossil of a hominid, being eaten by an allosaurus dinosaur. Look at the picture. [see link above etc.] Personally, I think Flea might have fallen for it, at least for a while. It gets the conspiracy theory thing that many creationists suffer from pretty well. Governments and scientists are, of course, hushing things up. I think this was a genuinely informative experiment from a sociological/psychological point of view. Great joke, too.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
dwise1 writes: In contrast, when Kent Hovind heard about it he immediately used it that night in a presentation. Did he? I knew that many were hopeful but cautious, but I didn't know anyone had been that foolish. I thought that the experiment was ethical, because it was a sufficiently unlikely and spectacular find to arouse anyone's suspicion or caution. Well, obviously I should amend that to "anyone near normal".
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Flea writes: I will correct any mistakes I make, and I promise, It wont take 40 years! That's quick for a creationist! Have you corrected the museum poster mistake yet? (I may have missed a post about it. Jaderis can check anything with the museum, remember). Then there's your mistaken claim in the original post that there are "many forgeries".
Don't Be a misleading Flea writes: If evolution is such a sound science, why are there so many forgeries? How many have you described so far? Remember, it's relative, and thousands of fossils have been described, so "many" should surely be at the very least tens if not hundreds. It's also worth considering that if most of what they're describing is correct, evolutionary paleontologists have no reason to make forgeries to make their point, and indeed, were any of the fossil forgeries mentioned in this thread so far actually made by scientists? It seems that only one forgery*, Piltdown Man, fooled people (and not everyone, by any means) for a significant length of time, and what contribution did that make to the out of Africa view we have of human evolution? None, obviously, other than to confuse people.
*"only one forgery": That's ignoring the Paluxy River footprints, which are still fooling some hillbillies more than 70 years after the first forgeries were made.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
misleading Flea writes: I did it GF! Welcome to the fray! The trouble with taking your mistakes out of the O.P. is that you can distort the entire thread, as people were replying to the original. But while you're at it, there's plenty more that's wrong with it. For example, you've still got this in there:
misleading Flea writes: I was at the Museum of Natural History just last year and they still have the banner of Archaeoraptor hanging outside. WHY? And this:
misleading Flea writes: With so many frauds, the evolutionary family tree is thinning of the fossil evidence necessary to give credence to their theories. When more than 99.99% of the fossil evidence remains. And this:
Mis.Flea writes: There are many more. Where the word "more" refers to the word "frauds" in the quote above, and you're so shy about listing these many frauds (not mistakes, frauds). Why not just be honest, and admit that it was a pretty silly mistake-ridden O.P., full of misleading claims, and that your "why lie?" phrase might have been better applied to the creationist sites where you got all these ideas in the first place? (We know you did 'cos we've seen all your claims before, except the N.Y. museum one). Edited by bluegenes, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024
