What is a Theory?

You were wrong though. We're not talking about formal theories here, we're talking about scientific ones. And your prediction that it will rain tomorrow is NOT a scientific theory.

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I hunt for the truth

Uh, no it doesn't, but if you'd like even more precise language, then how about "A day of non-rain followed by exactly two days of rain are followed by a third day of rain."But you're losing sight of the point you were trying to make, which I think was that you do too know what constitutes a scientific theory. Can we now agree that it includes a body of data from which general principles are derived that make predictions about future phenomena?--Percy

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By your definition a theory isn't false UNTIL the falsifying observation has been made.

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Agreed.But then again, the underlying (but unproven) assumption is that an infinitely falsifiable theory, such as "Water boils at 100 C", must be false, even if we have not made the falsifying observation as yet.Such theory can still be very useful, though. Scientific theories are usually infinitely falsifiable. In fact, a theory has to be infinitely falsifiable in order to be useful.

Are you even listening to yourself? You just said that scientific theories are both useful and false. You really believe you're going to make headway with this?--Percy

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Now you're off into the section of the Wikipedia article that talks about mathematical theories. We're talking about scientific theories here. Please stick to the topic.

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Mathematical theories are scientific theories. Therefore,it is sufficient to demonstrate that a theory is a mathematical theory, for it to be a scientific theory.Since "It rains tomorrow" is a mathematical theory (according to the Wikipedia article), it is also a scientific theory.

No, mathematical theories are not scientific theories. That's why they're covered in different sections of the Wikipedia article on Theory.Sheesh!--Percy

Seriously? You didn't just say that did you? What the hell has gotten into your head? "It rains tomorrow" A mathematical theory? Can I have some of what you're smoking?

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I hunt for the truth

This is the problem with philosophy and mathematics; elaborate explanations may not mean anything at all in the real world.This seems to be true of the "theory" that you have been espousing.To say that all science is "false" and can never be anything but false seems to be something that the philosophers should debate in private, and wash their hands afterwords.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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You just said that scientific theories are both useful and false.

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Exactly. In order to useful, theories must be (infinitely falsifiable and therefore presumably) false.Stephen Hawking:

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A theory is a good theory if it satisfies two requirements: It must accurately describe a large class of observations on the basis of a model that contains only a few arbitrary elements, and it must make definite predictions about the results of future observations.

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A useful theory must make future statements, rendering it unproven. Infinite falsifiability makes such theory useful, unproven, and (presumably) false.

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No, mathematical theories are not scientific theories.

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Really?

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Seriously? You didn't just say that did you?

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Of course, I did.

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"It rains tomorrow" A mathematical theory?

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{ Rains(17JAN2008) } is a set of statements expressed in a particular formal language, and therefore a theory.

Yes, really!In a nutshell, mathematical theories can be proved, scientific theories can't and thus, are always tentative.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

But it is NOT a mathematical theory, which is what you claimed it to be. Further, it rains tomorrow doesn't mean it will rain on the 17th of January, it depends on when the statement is made what tomorrow is. Also, it is not a scientific theory, as has been explained at least 5 times now.

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I hunt for the truth

And how is pushing these weird and contradictory ideas working out for you?Seriously, Eric, now you're just wasting people's time with the short, glib posts, and they'll eventually get you in trouble with board moderation. You should probably stop posting for a while until you regain your composure.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.

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mathematical theories can be proved, scientific theories can't

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Wrong.Mathematical theories are axiomatically reduced, but never proven, because the axioms to which they are (recursively) being reduced, and on which every mathematical statement eventually rests, MAY NOT be proven.Mathematics demands that its entire hypothesis be concentrated in its axioms, which in turn remain unproven.The word "proof" in math simply means "axiomatic reduction". This process does not guarantee that there will be no observations that will contradict the theory. So, even mathematics is fundamentally unproven.Mathematical theories are usually also infinitely falsifiable and therefore presumably false.For example, "the sum of all angles in a triangle is 180 degrees" is infinitely falsifiable and therefore presumably false. Nobody has managed to prove it, however.What's more, it is inefficient to disprove this, because its presumed falsehood (hypothesis) is entirely concentrated in the presumed falsehood (hypothesis) of the underlying axioms. Axiomatically reduced statements carry no hypothesis of themselves. Therefore, proving math wrong, should be done by proving one of its axioms to be wrong.