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Author Topic:   Evolution would've given us infrared eyesight
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 61 of 265 (495060)
01-20-2009 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by RickCHodgin
01-20-2009 12:27 PM


Re: Getting there from here....
However, how did we "evolve" cells which detected light in the visible spectrum? Visible light energies are of significantly lower energies than infrared.
As a physicist I would like to point out that in fact the visible light energy range is higher then the infrared energy range.
Of course that is secondary to the point that is being made here that the lack of human infrared sight does not detrac from evolution theory either way. Evolution theory does not require that all posiible things will evolve (no matter how advantageous they are)

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 Message 24 by RickCHodgin, posted 01-20-2009 12:27 PM RickCHodgin has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 131 of 265 (495337)
01-22-2009 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by RAZD
01-21-2009 7:36 PM


Re: No IR sensitivity, but UV . . . and then there is color blind\augmentation
So if a designer were going to design an optimum human eye:
  1. a broad spectrum of cone vision, from infra-red to ultra-violet,
  2. many different kinds of cones, so that more colors would be seen
  3. a dense array of cones and rods to make images sharper (similar to pixel resolution)
  4. large eye lens to increase amount of light used in the dark
  5. a large retina that acts like a large screen to also increase resolution in normal light
  6. a nictating membrane or two to function as dark glasses
  7. an unobstructed retina (nerves, veins and arteries behind the retina
  8. a retina with photo-receptors facing the light
  9. an adjustable location retina while keeping the adjustable lens - you could have a network of muscles on the backside with the nerves, veins and arteries,
  10. a third eye, so you have multiple binary vision redundancy plus up\down acuity.
... for starters.
I can't believe you did not mention the blind spot of the human eye cause by the neuron being bundled towards the inside of the eye(instead of the outside like any intelligent designer would have done) and then puncturing their way out of the eye (gots to get to the brain).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by RAZD, posted 01-21-2009 7:36 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Parasomnium, posted 01-22-2009 5:35 AM fallacycop has replied
 Message 142 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2009 7:44 AM fallacycop has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 132 of 265 (495338)
01-22-2009 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by kuresu
01-21-2009 8:00 PM


Re: What about the other guys?
And hey, guess what. You know that stuff that is burning orange and red in this photo:
File:Hot metalwork.jpg - Wikipedia
That's the "visible" part of the infrared spectrum that we can pick up.
No, kuresu. That burning orange and red stuff that we pick up in this photo is -- surprise -- orange and red (visible) light.

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 Message 78 by kuresu, posted 01-21-2009 8:00 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by kuresu, posted 01-22-2009 7:28 AM fallacycop has replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 134 of 265 (495343)
01-22-2009 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by RickCHodgin
01-21-2009 8:31 PM


Re: What about the other guys?
Science today shows us that it is impossible for Earth to be millions of years old, let alone billions (in anything resembling its present form). Atomic clocks were first activated and used in an official system in 1958. They were set upon two time methods (TAI and UT1) which were roughly in sync with each other at that time.
Today some 50 years later, they are 32 seconds apart due to a slowing of the Earth's rotation. A rate of 32 seconds per 50 years yields a slowing of one hour every 5,625 years. Multiply that by 24 (hours per day) and you're sitting at 135,000 years before the Earth would've completely slowed down. Add in a margin of error of 500% and you're now sitting on a maximum of 675,000 years
TGDaily – More than the news
I'm curious. You gave us a link that states something entirely different then what you quoted. Did you even read your own link?
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

This message is a reply to:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 135 of 265 (495350)
01-22-2009 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by RickCHodgin
01-21-2009 10:30 PM


Re: What about the other guys?
Subbie, my position is this: *IF* ToE was true, it would've produced evolution.
And we are telling you this: Just because you think evolution ought to have given you IR vision doesn't mean evolution is wrong. There is another logical possibility you have ovelooked. Namely, You don't fully understand the theory. Have you considered this?

This message is a reply to:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 136 of 265 (495351)
01-22-2009 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by RickCHodgin
01-21-2009 10:34 PM


RAZD, I have no desire to communicate with you. Please stop responding to my posts.
That's not how things work around here. RAZD is probably you best chance to learn something new while you are here. he is knowledgeable, patient (Much more patient then me), and quite willing to take the time to write high qulity posts. Why would you want to exclude him from the this forum?

This message is a reply to:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 137 of 265 (495354)
01-22-2009 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by RickCHodgin
01-22-2009 12:07 AM


They simply use materials which are invisible to infrared light for their receptors.
What? if the IR light is invisible for the receptors, how do the receptors see it?

This message is a reply to:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 147 of 265 (495441)
01-22-2009 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by kuresu
01-22-2009 7:28 AM


Re: What about the other guys?
We can see thermal radiation, it's just that the object has to be hot enough to emit within the range we can see.
Yes, we can see thermal radiation, but that's not what you had said. You said
That's the "visible" part of the infrared spectrum that we can pick up.
Infrared radiation and thermal radiation are not synonyms. Infrared is a specific range of electomagnetic radiation (between 750nm and 1000m as you pointed out) defined that way mainly because of the human brain's need to organise its knowlege into neat little boxes. Thermal radiation is not restricted to any specific range, including radio waves, microwaves, infrared, visible,... etc. All the way to gamma rays (yes indeed).
Red is the radiation with the smallest frequency (longest wavelength) that we can see. Infrared is just below red -- hence the name -- and is invisible by definition. If we could see it, it would be a new color. lets call it derum (just made that up). whatever invisible radiation whose frequency were to be just below derum's frequency range would be called infraderum. And RickCHodgin would be complained about the fact that (in his views) our inability to see infraderum should be taken as evidence against evolution. That shows how completely irelevant his point realy is. One could always find something else that we don't have or can't do. That is not evidence against evolution.
Edited by fallacycop, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by kuresu, posted 01-22-2009 7:28 AM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Dr Jack, posted 01-23-2009 4:04 AM fallacycop has replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 148 of 265 (495443)
01-22-2009 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Parasomnium
01-22-2009 5:35 AM


Re: No IR sensitivity, but UV . . . and then there is color blind\augmentation
fallacycop writes:
I can't believe you did not mention the blind spot
According to the list you quote he did, it's covered by #7.
#7 covers obstruction of light by intervening blood vessels and nerves. That's barely noticeable. I'm talking about the blind spot which is a bigger issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Parasomnium, posted 01-22-2009 5:35 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Parasomnium, posted 01-22-2009 5:21 PM fallacycop has replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 150 of 265 (495450)
01-22-2009 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Parasomnium
01-22-2009 5:21 PM


Re: No IR sensitivity, but UV . . . and then there is color blind\augmentation
The blind spot is the logical consequence of the nerves lying on the wrong side of the retina.
The retina does not cover 100% of the surface of the eyeball. The nervs could find their way around it. they don't.
Normally we don't notice the blind spot at all.
Sure. But it can be noticed.
On the other hand, I think we would notice the difference if the nerves were suddenly on the backside of the retina, because more photons would reach the retina and that would probably enhance night vision.
I doubt it. But may be you are right.

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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5549 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 155 of 265 (495548)
01-23-2009 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Dr Jack
01-23-2009 4:04 AM


Re: Infrared range pedantry
Infrared is a specific range of electomagnetic radiation (between 750nm and 1000nm as you pointed out)
I think you mean 750nm and 1000m.
You are quite right. I'll fix that typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Dr Jack, posted 01-23-2009 4:04 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
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