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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Kurt Wise - A YAC and an old earth evolutionist? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Quoting something from a Fedmahn Kassad posting:
quote: Wise (not to be confused with Wise) seems to be an interesting character, who seems to have kept a pretty low profile. I don't know if this will go anywhere, but the above quote from Kurt Wise seemed to be worth it's own topic. Moose Added by edit: FK, could you supply a link to the Theology.Web topic? [This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 10-30-2003]
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Kurt Wise seems to be truly bipolar on the creationism versus evolution issue.
He maintains a personal Biblical literalistic faith in Young Age Creationism (the "fact" of creationism), but at the same time recognizes that there is little or no world evidence to support "young age-ism". He recognizes that the worldly (and "universal") evidence is very strongly in support of the mainstream science viewpoint of a c. 13 by universe and a 4.5 by earth. Seemingly, but perhaps not, this recognition would extend to include that the worldly evidence does indeed support the reality of both the fact and theory of organic evolution. So, is the answer to the title question "YES"? Probably not. Does Kurt Wise think that the worldly evidence is some sort of illusion? So it would seem. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
This topic seems to, to some degree, connect up to the When is a belief system a Mental Disorder? and Should a Creationist be allowed to hold a position of Authority? topics.
Kurt Wise, as quoted in message 1, writes: "I am a young-age creationist because the Bible indicates the universe is young. Given what we currently think we understand about the world, the majority of the scientific evidence favors an old earth and universe, not a young one. I would therefore say that anyone who claims that the earth is young for scientific evidence alone is scientifically ignorant." Please also see the messages between message 1 and this one. Somewhere back in that second topic, there is a message from Jar (it might be easy to find if it had a good subtitle ) that said something to the effect of "To hold a position of authority, it's OK to have a belief by faith that the Earth is young, if you recognise that the worldly evidence indicates that it indeed very old". So, where does that place Kurt Wise, on the "wacko scale" and as being a candidate to hold a position of authority? Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
In message 1, I made the comment that Kurt Wise "seems to have kept a pretty low profile".
Well, there is a new topic that directly involves Dr. Wise. It is the schizochroal eye (of trilobites): evidence of design. Just flagging this situation for future reference. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
An "In The News" type message. Quoted in its entirety below:
Seminary Appoints Creationist to Head Theology & Science Ctr - Christian News Headlines
quote: Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
EvC Forum: Reasons for Creationist Persistence, by Dr Adequate.
Quoted in its entirety:
That interview with Kurt Wise 'To accept the entire evolutionary model would mean one would have to reject Scripture. And because I came to know Christ through Scripture I couldn't reject it.' At that point he decided his only option was to reject evolutionary theory ... He is more honest than the rest of them. Apart from evolution, Dr Wise says that one of the things that has really bothered him is finding creationists who fall into the trap of dismissing justified criticism. He said he has presented data to point out areas that some of them needed to change, and it was either fobbed off or was still being repeated next time he saw them. Here he is on intermediate forms: Darwin's second expectation -- of stratomorphic intermediate species -- has been confirmed by such species as Baragwanathia (between rhyniophytes and lycopods),Pikaia (between echinoderms and chordates), Purgatorius (between the tree shrews and the primates), and Proconsul (between the non-hominoid primates and the hominoids). Darwin's third expectation -- of higher taxon stratomorphic intermediates -- has been nicely confirmed by the mammal-like reptile groups between the reptiles and the mammals and the phenacodontids between the horses and their presumed ancestors. Darwin's fourth expectation -- of stratomorphic series --- has been beautifully confirmed by such examples as the early bird series, the tetrapod series, the whale series, the various mammal series of the Cenozoic (e.g. the horse series, the camel series, the elephant series, the pig series, the titanothere series, etc.), the Cantius and Plesiadapus primate series, and the hominid series. The existence of stratomorphic intermediates of the general type expected a priori by macroevolutionary theory (above the level of species) should be acknowledged by creationists for what it is: very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory. It certainly CANNOT be said that the traditional creation theory expected (predicted) any of these fossil finds." (Kurt Wise, Towards a Creationist Understanding of 'Transitional Forms, CEN Technical Journal 9 (1995) p. 218-219) Apparently he hopes to work round them in some way. There's also a bit more "things Kurt Wise" upthread. Moose Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Garrett, here, trotted out the big list of YEC scientists. Included on that list was Kurt Wise.
Now, in my brief review of Garrett's messages, I get mixed impressions on whether he is a YEC or not. My tentative conclusion is that he is NOT a YEC, but likes to discuss things from a YEC perspective. Anyhow, that was one of my reasons to bump this topic. The other was the following:
Sadly, an Honest Creationist by Richard Dawkins. It includes:
quote: and
quote: Also much more, some of which has been touched upon upthread. Moose Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Honest creationist Kurt Wise on transitional fossils
Quoting the first 3 paragraphs from PT:
quote: As stated, that first link does not go directly to the PDF in question. The direct link is Loading... (I don't know why that wasn't given at PT). But anyway - Loading... CORE is the Center for Origins Research, and is headed by Dr. Kurt Wise. Quoting that homepage:
quote: Seemingly there should be a lot of interesting creationist perspective there, considering that CORE is headed by "an honest creationist". So, in summary, BUMP. Moose
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