Kurt Wise - A YAC and an old earth evolutionist?

Quoting something from a Fedmahn Kassad posting:

quote:

---

Have you ever seen the recent quote by Kurt Wise? I publicized it over at Theology.Web. Dr. Wise is a Creationist who studied under Stephen Gould. Here is what he wrote about the majority of the evidence: I am a young-age creationist because the Bible indicates the universe is young. Given what we currently think we understand about the world, the majority of the scientific evidence favors an old earth and universe, not a young one. I would therefore say that anyone who claims that the earth is young for scientific evidence alone is scientifically ignorant.

---

Wise (not to be confused with Wise) seems to be an interesting character, who seems to have kept a pretty low profile.I don't know if this will go anywhere, but the above quote from Kurt Wise seemed to be worth it's own topic.MooseAdded by edit: FK, could you supply a link to the Theology.Web topic?[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 10-30-2003]

Kurt Wise seems to be truly bipolar on the creationism versus evolution issue.He maintains a personal Biblical literalistic faith in Young Age Creationism (the "fact" of creationism), but at the same time recognizes that there is little or no world evidence to support "young age-ism".He recognizes that the worldly (and "universal") evidence is very strongly in support of the mainstream science viewpoint of a c. 13 by universe and a 4.5 by earth. Seemingly, but perhaps not, this recognition would extend to include that the worldly evidence does indeed support the reality of both the fact and theory of organic evolution.So, is the answer to the title question "YES"? Probably not. Does Kurt Wise think that the worldly evidence is some sort of illusion? So it would seem.Moose

This topic seems to, to some degree, connect up to the When is a belief system a Mental Disorder? and Should a Creationist be allowed to hold a position of Authority? topics. Please also see the messages between message 1 and this one.Somewhere back in that second topic, there is a message from Jar (it might be easy to find if it had a good subtitle ) that said something to the effect of "To hold a position of authority, it's OK to have a belief by faith that the Earth is young, if you recognise that the worldly evidence indicates that it indeed very old".So, where does that place Kurt Wise, on the "wacko scale" and as being a candidate to hold a position of authority?Moose

In message 1, I made the comment that Kurt Wise "seems to have kept a pretty low profile".Well, there is a new topic that directly involves Dr. Wise. It is the schizochroal eye (of trilobites): evidence of design.Just flagging this situation for future reference.Moose

An "In The News" type message. Quoted in its entirety below:Seminary Appoints Creationist to Head Theology & Science Ctr - Christian News Headlines

quote:

---

Seminary Appoints Creationist to Head Theology & Science Ctr
Jim Brown
AgapePress

​

(AgapePress) - A Young Earth creationist will be replacing a leading intelligent design (ID) proponent as director of the Center for Theology and Science at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.

​

The new center will be led by Dr. Kurt Wise, who recently directed the Center for Origins Research at Bryan College, a school located in Dayton, Tennessee, home of the famous Scopes evolution trial in 1925. The new director of the Center for Theology and Science at SBTS says he intends to take a different approach than that of his predecessor, leading ID theorist Dr. William Dembski.

​

While Dembski was an outspoken participant in the debate between the religious and secular scientific communities over evolution and a vocal promoter of ID in opposition to mainstream Darwinist theories, Wise says he hopes to "focus more on the Christian world and how Christians should respond to the entire issue of origins."

​

As a creationist who holds a master's degree and a doctorate in paleontology, Wise contends that scripture provides what is by far the best evidence for creation. "I'm very interested in the specific claims the Bible makes about science," he notes, "and I'm less interested in the secular world's response to those things."

​

Interestingly, the new head of the Center for Theology and Science received his doctoral degree in paleontology at Harvard under the advisement of famous evolutionist Dr. Stephen Jay Gould. Yet while the creationist scholar personally believes in the biblical account of the origins of life, he does not feel Christians should be trying to get either creationism or intelligent design taught in public schools at this time.

​

Public schools today need far more than the introduction of ID or creation science into their curricula, the theology and science scholar suggests. "I think we need to change all of science education," he says. "We need to teach what science really is."

​

In actuality, Wise asserts, science is not a product and should never have come to be understood as being "the answers," collectively, to the questions people ask. "Science is the way we find the answers to the questions people are asking," he insists. "It's a process."

​

And until science is taught that way in the classroom -- as a process rather than a finite product, the Christian paleontologist adds, "I don't think we have any business being in there or trying to get a creationist or an ID theory in there."

​

Dr. Wise is looking forward to leading Southern Baptist Theological Seminary's Center for Theology and Science. However, he acknowledges that his appointment as director is likely to cause consternation within even the Christian community, as Young Earth creationism is a minority position in the church.

​

© C2006 AgapePress

---

Moose

EvC Forum: Reasons for Creationist Persistence, by Dr Adequate.Quoted in its entirety: There's also a bit more "things Kurt Wise" upthread.Moose

---

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

​

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

​

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

Garrett, here, trotted out the big list of YEC scientists. Included on that list was Kurt Wise.Now, in my brief review of Garrett's messages, I get mixed impressions on whether he is a YEC or not. My tentative conclusion is that he is NOT a YEC, but likes to discuss things from a YEC perspective.Anyhow, that was one of my reasons to bump this topic. The other was the following: Sadly, an Honest Creationist by Richard Dawkins.It includes:

quote:

---

Wise stands out among young earth creationists not only for his impeccable education, but because he displays a modicum of scientific honesty and integrity. I have seen a published letter in which he comments on alleged “human bones” in Carboniferous coal deposits. If authenticated as human, these “bones” would blow the theory of evolution out of the water (incidentally giving lie to the canard that evolution is unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific...

---

and

quote:

---

Unusually among the motley denizens of the “big tent” of creationism and intelligent design, he seems to accept that God needs no help from false witness.

---

Also much more, some of which has been touched upon upthread.Moose

---

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

​

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

​

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

Honest creationist Kurt Wise on transitional fossilsQuoting the first 3 paragraphs from PT:

quote:

---

I rediscovered a 1995 article by creationist paleontologist Kurt Wise in response to a question I got this morning. I discovered to my surprise that the article is online, but, probably because almost no one reads creationist articles, no one had commented on it.

​

Wise basically gives away the whole game by conceding that the fossil record does contain numerous examples of transitional series bridging major transitions. His only qualm is in the very small species-to-species transitions where (like Gould, his PhD advisor) he says the fossil record has a more punctuated pattern. (As far as I’ve heard, scientific meta-analyses are about split 50-50 across various groups about whether the fossil record is punctuated or smooth at this level; at any rate, these small differences between species should be irrelevant to creationists, since this level of change is well within the “microevolution within a kind” (usually a taxonomic family or so) which creationists readily accept.)

​

A scanned PDF of the article is online here. Click the “Ape-men, bird-lizards, and walking whales” circle and a link to the article comes up. After reading the article, one can’t help saying, “Why don’t you just GIVE UP already!!” Of course, we know the reason why: Kurt Wise has forthrightly stated that his adherence to Biblical literalism comes first, and if the physical evidence is against creationism, so much the worse for the evidence. This is why Richard Dawkins dubbed Wise “an honest creationist.”

---

As stated, that first link does not go directly to the PDF in question. The direct link is Loading... (I don't know why that wasn't given at PT).But anyway -Loading...CORE is the Center for Origins Research, and is headed by Dr. Kurt Wise.Quoting that homepage:

quote:

---

The Center for Origins Research at Bryan College is the world leader in creationist biology research. We believe that science is an avenue for learning about God by studying the things He made. We seek to develop a new way of looking at biology that honors the Creator.

---

Seemingly there should be a lot of interesting creationist perspective there, considering that CORE is headed by "an honest creationist".So, in summary, BUMP.Moose