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Author Topic:   Why is it that God couldn't have made Creation with evolution?
Tanndarr
Member (Idle past 5211 days)
Posts: 68
Joined: 02-14-2008


Message 90 of 167 (523902)
09-13-2009 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Archangel
09-12-2009 9:29 PM


Your sources aren't working
I tried following the link to your creationists.org site, the article you linked to returns a 404 not found and the whole site merely gives an under construction message. Perhaps it's just adapting, but until it finishes could you please provide a valid reference for us?
In the meantime you might want to consider that the ability of science to account for new evidence by changing is exactly why science is not a religion. Religions are revealed, science is discovered. We didn't pray a man onto the moon and Jesus did not personally deliver smallpox vaccine.
You're not only demanding that science conforms to your worldview, you're demanding God conform to your worldview as well. Your position is based on the interpretation of a translation of a really old book. If you believe in God you are positively turning your back to him by studying a book written by man instead of the creation written by God.
Finally, you are equivocating when you try to differentiate adaptation and evolution. Change is change and that's really all that the theory of evolution says is happening. Once you accept a small change can happen then you have to accept that another can happen and so on...evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Archangel, posted 09-12-2009 9:29 PM Archangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Archangel, posted 09-13-2009 4:48 PM Tanndarr has replied

  
Tanndarr
Member (Idle past 5211 days)
Posts: 68
Joined: 02-14-2008


Message 91 of 167 (523913)
09-13-2009 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Archangel
09-13-2009 8:34 AM


Re: God using evolution
quote:
Some pseudoscientific theories explain what non-believers cannot even observe.
The web site of the US Department of Energy admits that no one has observed evolution happen in nature or the laboratory, but explains, ‘As for the fact that we haven’t made evolving life in the laboratory yet, I think that you’re expecting too much of your species. Let’s say, as a first guess, that it took blind Nature a billion years to make evolving life on earth. How much faster do you want us to go? Even if you give us an advantage of a factor of a MILLION in speed, it would still take us a thousand years to catch up ’.3
So it is totally unrealistic to expect to actually observe evolution, even under artificially accelerated conditions.
  —Archangel
This is a pretty obvious misinterpretation of the letter originally answered on the DoE website. Creation.com actually weasels their way into this and you fall for it hook, line and sinker; note what they (creation.com) say:
quote:
The web site of the US Department of Energy admits that no one has observed evolution happen in nature or the laboratory...
Then read what immediately follows quoted from the DoE site:
quote:
As for the fact that we haven’t made evolving life in the laboratory yet...
Can you not see that these two lines say completely different things? And we're supposed to accept your interpretation of something as obtuse as scripture when you demonstrate you can't see the discrepancy if not blatant dishonesty in this line you quoted?
No, we can't make life...yet. But evolution to include macroevolotion has been directly observed. Your position is as silly as someone claiming the bible is false because it doesn't contain a recipe for custard.
Go to the original source and read the letter: Ask A Scientist: US Department of Energy
Edited by Tanndarr, : Erasing evidence of bad grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Archangel, posted 09-13-2009 8:34 AM Archangel has not replied

  
Tanndarr
Member (Idle past 5211 days)
Posts: 68
Joined: 02-14-2008


Message 100 of 167 (523971)
09-13-2009 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Archangel
09-13-2009 4:48 PM


Re: Your sources aren't working
If you are referring post # 88 above by me, with this link: Is evolution pseudoscience? - creation.com I went so far as to also copy and paste the article itself with the link, so what is your complaint? unless you are speaking to a different link, then quote it and I will make it right. I must say though that I have clicked on every link I have posted and they all work for me. But let me know if any don't and I will C&P the content. But creation.com has already been done in post 88.
I checked the link again from post 83, that appears to be working now. I followed the link in post 88 which was working fine. Evidently just a temporary issue which another user noted above. Nothing to worry about.
I couldn't help noticing how you completely ignore the way your source is lying to you. Do you think that's the only lie they're telling or could there be more? Try following those sources sometime and see for yourself.
But true science doesn't claim new facts based on assumptions and unproven conclusions as evolution does. Science builds its conclusions upon foundations of proven and tested facts. You have no proof of anything in evo, yet you sit there and insist that your so called science is valid.
Nonsense. No true scotsman falacy aside, your understanding of how science works is just plain wrong. I'm not a scientist by vocation, but I understand that science is tentative and that we change our explanations to fit the facts. There is no proof; there is a tested explanation that fits all of the evidence we see. The explanation may be wrong but nobody has come up with anything better...especially the god botherers.
Dark energy stufff...
Off topic and you'll note that info.com is not a link to what scientists are actually saying...it's dumbed down so people like me can sort of understand it. This is no more science than a grade-school crayon drawing of the Mona Lisa is art.
Balderdash, TO THE MAX. You are just exposing first, your ignorance of the reliability of Gods word, and secondly your understanding of its consistency when one delves into every detail of it. You need to do better than that if your going to cause this believer to stumble and drop my belief system for the lies which yours represents.
Well, I was going to disagree but when you said "TO THE MAX" in all caps like that I had to reevaluate my position...such a potent and lucid argument. Consistency in the bible is a matter of interpretation. Oh, I don't want to make you give up your belief system Archangel, I just don't want you to try and teach it to the children of strangers under the color of science.
No I'm not equivocating at all. The fact is that evolution claims more than changes take place. It claims that all species life on earth, from plants through insects, up to fish all the way to we human beings share a COMMON DESCENT FROM ONE UNIVERSAL ANCESTOR WHO BORE US ALL THROUGH GENETIC DRIFT. In other words MACROEVOLUTION. That is what you believe occurred and nothing discovered in rapid adaptation shows changes in alleles which allow one species to evolve or adapt into another.
Look at it this way, much of what you evos call junk DNA just because you can't figure out what it does, is precisely that DNA which allows for rapid adaptation based on environmental pressures throughout the animal kingdom.
More caps...wow. Look, common descent is just fallout from the ToE; an observation of what we see in the light of evolution. If evidence that is contrary shows up then common descent will be abandoned which may or may not take evolution as we know it with it. Theories have been overturned in the past, so it's not impossible, in fact it's what every scientist lives for. But you're kidding yourself if you think all it will take to overturn the theory is rhetoric, opinion polls and school board meetings. When push comes to shove you will need an explanation that fits all the evidence better than the theory you're trying to overturn.
Show us the work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Archangel, posted 09-13-2009 4:48 PM Archangel has not replied

  
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