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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

The evolution of an atheist.

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Author Topic:   The evolution of an atheist.
Theodoric
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Message 42 of 280 (574384)
08-15-2010 3:46 PM 		Reply to: Message 40 by jar
08-15-2010 3:14 PM

Because actual authorship was simply not considered all that important at the time.
On what evidence do you base this claim?
Psuedepigraphs are forgeries no matter how you want to spin it. The purpose of these were to decieve. If they were not to deceive they would not have been falsely attributed to start with. The attribution to some one else or the appending to earlier documents was clearly intended to deceive.
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Your comment is spectacularly wrong.
Galen (ca. 129-ca 200CE) found it necessary to write a book telling how to tell his work from forgeries.
Even Christians thought it was bad form. The church father Tertullian(ca. 160-ca. 225) told a story of how the forger of 3 Corinthians was duly convicted by the ecclesiastical authority for composing this letter and falsely attributing it to Paul.
Source is The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails, edited by John Loftus, article The Bible and Modern Scholarship, by Paul Tobin page 168.
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The claim that authorship was not important and forgeries were well tolerated is an apologist lie. Unless you can provide some sort of proof to back this up, I will have to go with Tertullian and Galen.
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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
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Message 45 of 280 (574389)
08-15-2010 3:58 PM 		Reply to: Message 43 by jar
08-15-2010 3:47 PM

So no evidence for your assertion?
I still call bullshit. Give us some evidence for this claim. It is clearly just apologetics. Show me one instance where a known forgery was accepted as ok because of who it was attributed to.
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You make an assertion and have as of yet to back it with any evidence. While I have given 2 instances where people from the time period had a huge problem with pseudepigraphy.
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Apologists uyse the words "pseudepigraphy and "pseudynomity" for one reason. They do not sound as bad as "forgery", but that is what they are forgeries.
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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
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Message 56 of 280 (574521)
08-16-2010 10:32 AM 		Reply to: Message 46 by jar
08-15-2010 4:13 PM

Re: So no evidence for your assertion?
It was an opinion.
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If you disagree then fine.
But it isn't just an opinion. You did not present it as an opinion. This is not a "just agree to disagree" moment. You made an assertion in a way that you expected it to be taken on just your say so and you have been shown to be wrong.
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Your opinion does not change reality. The way to show the reality is different and to change my viewpoint is to provide evidence. If you can not provide evidence then your "opinion" is wrong.
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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
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Message 143 of 280 (575283)
08-19-2010 10:13 AM 		Reply to: Message 91 by Bikerman
08-18-2010 6:18 PM

YOu should review kapyong's post about Jesus and the ancient sources.
Message 8
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TACITUS
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Cornelius Tacitus wrote a celebrated passage about Jesus roughly 80 years or so after the alleged events - but he seems to be reporting Christian beliefs of his later times, not using earlier documents: he uses the incorrect title 'procurator' - the term used in Tacitus' time, not Pilate's; he fails to name the executed man (Roman records could not possibly have called him 'Christ '); and he accepts the recent advent of the Christians, when Rome was known to allow only ancient cults and religions.
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Rating: CLAIMED to mention Jesus, but probably late hearsay.
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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
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From: Northwest, WI, USA
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Message 147 of 280 (575305)
08-19-2010 12:16 PM 		Reply to: Message 144 by Bikerman
08-19-2010 11:31 AM

The key point
There is no contemporary, non-biblical evidence for anyone resembling this Jesus. There are so many claims that there were extensive Roman records, but no one can show any roman record that mentions Jesus of the bible or any circumstance mentioned in the bible. I constantly hear that the must have accessed original Roman records, but there is no evidence that anything historical that was written about Jesus in the 1st and 2nd century was not hearsay or a later interpolation(forgery). None.
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You are conceding the possible existence for a person that there is NO historical evidence for.
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Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.
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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
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Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
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Message 193 of 280 (576502)
08-24-2010 10:24 AM 		Reply to: Message 190 by GDR
08-24-2010 9:58 AM

Maybe you should think more on this
You say that you are an atheist which means that you believe that there is no god(s). You can't prove it so therefore you have to believe that you are correct. Atheism is a belief just as much as Christianity is.
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That makes as much sense as saying not collecting stamps is a hobby.
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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
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From: Northwest, WI, USA
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Message 239 of 280 (577140)
08-27-2010 10:05 AM 		Reply to: Message 234 by GDR
08-26-2010 11:09 PM

Re: Theology and Imagination
Phage0070 writes:
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Dishonest approaches which have more to offer on issues we don't actually have knowledge about are called "lies".
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Honest approaches which have more to offer on issues we don't have sufficient knowledge about are called "opinions".
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Gee I see you don't disagree with Phage on his point. I guess you feel much better with lies than opinions?
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This one post completely crystallizes your worldview and beliefs. No thank you, I don't need any more lies in my life. Opinions are more than welcome, but no lies please.
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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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