|
Author
|
Topic: Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
(2)
| |
| |
| |
archaeologist writes: there is so much you do not know about the dpiritual world, you keep trying to put this on a humanlevel so you can feel justified in not believing.
The problem with playing the I-know-because-God-told-me-so card is that anybody can do it. In fact, God told me personally, just this very morning, that you don't know what you're talking about. Your conversations with your god have no more value than my conversations with the real God, so we need to ascend to the human level to have a meaningful conversation.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
John 10;10 writes: ... and how all of today's good translations of the Bible clearly present God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus.
If that "plan" is presented so clearly, why are there so many different denmoniations with different interpretations of what that "plan" is?
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
John 10:10 writes: It's not the different plans of salvation in Christ Jesus which have resulted in so many different Christian denominations. It's more about the many different denominations emphasizing different truths about how to live godly in Christ Jesus.
And the Bible is sending the message about which truths to emphasize. They're getting different messages, which makes the Bible a pretty unreliable source.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
John 10:10 writes: ringo writes: And the Bible is sending the message about which truths to emphasize. They're getting different messages, which makes the Bible a pretty unreliable source.
The Bible does no such thing. The Bible is God's "whole counsel" on how God has chosen to reveal Himself to man, and how man can come into right relationship with Him through the Lord Jesus Christ. There will be only one denomination that will live with God forever, those that have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.
That's even worse than what I said. If only one denomination is getting The Right Answer™ out of the Bible, then the Bible is even more unreliable than I thought. (What denomination would that be, anyway?)
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
John 10:10 writes: It's the denomination of all Believers down through the ages that have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, both OT saints who looked forward to the coming Messiah and NT saints who look back to His death, burial, resurrection and exaltation to the right hand of God the Father.
That's not a denomination. By definition, a denomination is a subset, a group that gets a specific message from the Bible. Since all of those groups get a different message, my point stands and you seem to be evading it.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
John 10:10 writes: "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals ; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation."
It's nice to know that the One True Denomination™ will have members from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. At least that doesn't sound very exclusive. But you're still ignoring the point and the topic: There are people who get different messages from the Bible. It doesn't matter if the members of the One True Denomination™ are all getting the same message. We're talking about the ones who are getting a different message. Unless you're claiming that everybody is going to heaven, you have to acknowledge that somebody is getting the "wrong" message from the Bible. That makes the Bible an unreliable source.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
John 10:10 writes: It seems to me that unbelievers who are blinded by the god of this world Satan are the ones who are getting a different message from the Bible, not Believers.
That doesn't say much for the Bible being truly inspired, does it, if it can't overcome the power of Satan?
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
John 10:10 writes: God gives to every man a "measure of faith" (Rom 12:3) to believe in who God is and in God's salvation in Christ Jesus, which then does lead to overcoming the evil one.
If God has to give a measure of faith to convince you to believe the Bible, then the Bible on its own must not be very convincing. If it was authoritative and truly inspired, you'd think people would have a "lightbulb moment" as soon as they read it.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Lightbulb moment?
John 10:10 writes: Consider getting a Christmas present sometime that you never open.
But people do open the Bible. The problem is that when they open it, they don't all agree on what the gift is. Some use it as a doorstop, some hang it on the wall as a decoration, some use it as a cookbook. It does a poor job of communicating what it is.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
(1)
| |
| |
| |
Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
John 10:10 writes: ... unbelievers may need more proof, but not Believers.
It isn't about believers though. Believers don't need an authoritative and inspired book if they already have the Holy Spirit whispering directly in their ears. What's the book good for if it can't convince unbelievers?
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
John 10:10 writes: The Spirit leads us into how to carry out the spiritual principles God has revealed in His Word.
But I asked you: If the Spirit is guiding you on how to interpret the Word, what do you need the Word for at all? Why can't the Spirit tell you directly how to carry out God's spiritual principles? It seems pretty clear that some people are getting the wrong principles from the Word, so why not eliminate the middleman entirely?
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
|
Message 287 of 386 (577529)
08-29-2010 1:17 PM
|
Reply to: Message 281 by Buzsaw
08-29-2010 8:32 AM
|
|
Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
Buzsaw writes: The Holy Spirit never contradicts the written word.
I haven't suggested otherwise. What I'm asking is: If the Bible was authoritative and truly inspired, why would we need the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding it? Conversely, if the Holy Spirit is guiding you, why can't he guide you directly instead of through the Bible? You and John are both claiming that the Holy Spirit is to the Bible what Cliff Notes is to Shakespeare's plays. You both seem to be arguing against the premise that the Bible is authoritative and truly inspired because it requires a crutch to understand it.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 281 by Buzsaw, posted 08-29-2010 8:32 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
John 10:10 writes: ringo writes: Why can't the Spirit tell you directly how to carry out God's spiritual principles? It seems pretty clear that some people are getting the wrong principles from the Word, so why not eliminate the middleman entirely?
Pure and simple: Because there are a lot of charlatans out there that would like to tell you things that violate the principles of God's Word.
You didn't answer the question: Why not eliminate the Bible altogether and rely on the Holy Spirit to whisper The Truth™ in people's ears? As I mentioned to Buzsaw, you seem to be arguing that the Bible is neither authoritative nor truly inspired. You're using the Holy Spirit as your final authority instead of the Bible and you're relying on continuing inspiration from the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible instead of trusting the inspiration in the Bible.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
John 10:10 writes: ringo writes: Why not eliminate the Bible altogether and rely on the Holy Spirit to whisper The Truth in people's ears?
Because there are a lot of charlatans out there that would like to tell you things (that they say the Holy Spirit told them) that violate the principles of God's Word.
Then why not eliminate the Holy Spirit as an authority on interpretation? You seem to be claiming that we need the Holy Spirit to verify what the Bible says and we need the Bible to verify what the Holy Spirit says. In the world of charlatans, the Holy Spirit would be the shill, the one who says, "Yes, it's true! I was healed by Professor Marvel's Magic Snake Oil Elixir!" Your reasoning is circular. You need something outside the circle to confirm both the Bible and the Holy Spirit.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
John 10:10 writes: Yes, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you to the foot of the cross where salvation is found in the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you in paths of righteousness in Christ Jesus after you find God's salvation.
But the topic is the Bible and my question is: Why do we need both? If the Bible was authoritative and truly inspired and if its message was as simple and changeless as you claim, why can't it be the only source? Clearly, it isn't authoritative and truly inspired if it can't lead us in the paths of righteousness without outside help.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
|
™ Version 4.2