|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,927 Year: 4,184/9,624 Month: 1,055/974 Week: 14/368 Day: 14/11 Hour: 2/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Who is really in charge of inspiration? | |||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Did the Hebrews also say that their invisible friend told them to wander in the wilderness for 40 years and have an entire generation die out there in the desert ? No, but a story teller was inspired to keep adding episodes so that over time more and more meals and more and more nights shelter were earned.
Did they also envoke their invisible friend to remove them from the land of Canaan off to Babylon so that only a remnant minority returned after 70 years ? Nah, they did that all on their own. In addition we have no idea whether more returned then left or not. Many folk decided not to return. That was a major problem and lead to cranking up the propaganda machine to make the "old country" look like something worth returning to. The result was the creation of an Israel that never really existed in reality. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
jaywill writes: The issue is not nearly that simple. You have a Person born in Bethlehem that was predicted to be born some 500 years earlier. Micah the prophet spoke of one whose goings were from eternity, who would come a ruler of Israel. Once again, have you ever read the Bible? Jesus has never been the ruler of Israel. The ruler mentioned only has a historic legacy, nothing about goings were from eternity. I imagine that you are referring to Micah 5 as some prophecy of Jesus but if you actually read it in context it cannot be talking about Jesus and it does not seem to say what you claim. Micah 5:
quote: Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
jaywill writes: 2.) What advantage to the devil would it be to speak of the eternal punishment prepared for the devil and his angels?
"Then He [Christ] will say to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matt. 25:41) How does it serve the devil's purposes that I know that an eternal punishment has been prepared for the devil and his angels ? That is a classic and near perfect example. Thanks for mentioning that very one. In the Matt 25 Sheep and Goats story, the Goats are Christ's followers, the Sheep those who did not follow Christ. Satan was bright enough to understand that in particular, Biblical Christians would evolve who did not know how to read critically and so would see themselves as the Sheep even though the passage clearly says otherwise.
quote: Note that the Sheep are surprised that they are selected as saved even though they know they never did anything for Jesus, not even praise him. They were not his followers. The Goats are equally amazed because they knew that they would have done anything for Jesus, never failed to aid him when he needed it. They were his followers. So in that very passage Satan is saying that the followers of Christ just don't get it. Or maybe it really is GOD telling you that you just don't get it? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Except that is NOT what it says. It says all the earth is gathered, not all the earth except the least of these my brothers. It describes but two groups, those on the right and those on the left.
The least of these my brothers are all who are hungry, need shelter, are naked, sorrowful or ignorant. They could be in either group. I posted all of the Sheep and Goat parable so that the audience can read it in context. The readers can decide which of us is the false teacher. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As usual, just more tap dancing and misdirection.
I will post the passage yet again:
quote: There is no mention of where it will be located, and in fact all the nations a gathered before him. There is no mention of any excluded or other group of humans. It is only after they are all gathered before him that the separation and culling is done.
quote: The Sheep are surprised because they knew they had never done anything for Jesus.
quote: The Goats are surprised because they knew they had never failed to do for Jesus. And so far I have never seen any indication of a fulfilled Biblical Prophecy. If it is considered as a prophecy then it is still a failed prophecy. If though it is considered as an inspired charge, part of the teaching unrelated to any future even but simpley a statement of what we are to do, it is valid. It is NOT what to believe, it is NOT what you profess, it is what you do that counts. There is inspiration in the Bible, words to inspire folk to do. Trying to make the SOURCE the main point diminishes and trivializes the message and the Bible. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
One of the practices of many Christian Apologists that is relevant to this thread is that they love to pull what are often called "proof texts" out of context and then use them as evidence of support for some other totally unrelated part of the Bible.
For example. There is no reason to think that Joel is ever speaking about Jesus, if Joel is read in context it is pretty obvious that it is speaking to the people of his day (likely around 800BCE) and telling them to shape up. It is a practice though, and one that I believe helps drive folk away from Christianity, for Biblical Christian Apologists to try to tie every passage they can into foreshadowing Jesus. Come one now. People can actually read the Bible and see that the Apologists are just tap dancing, toss spaghetti on the ceiling to see what sticks. This is not some new tactic, it can be seen in the edits and additions made to what eventually passed through some Committee of Canon and has been incorporated. The audience can read both (the Sheep and Goats I already included and Joel is just a few Chapters long) and see what is really said. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Nonsense jaywill. Come on.
quote: Think. All that says is the the author of Revelation did exactly what I pointed out. The author of Revelation had access to Joel and could use it in his writing meant for the audience about 1500+ years ago, but it tells us nothing about what the author of Joel who wrote almost a thousand years before the author of Revelations meant. The author of Revelation used passages from Joel as inspiration for his apocalyptic literature about Rome. Revelation though is yet another great example of at best unfulfilled prophecy and more likely failed prophecy. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Buz writes: This thread ain't over until the fat lady sings, as the saying goes relative to the fat lady, Kate Smith, who sang at the end of sports events back in the 1940,50s. Actually, no. It referred humorously to many of the rather large women that were opera sopranos, particularly Wagnerian operas. And another example of how things get reworked. So far no one has offered any support that there is any inspiration other than man, later authors borrow and take passages from earlier authors and use them out of context as "proof texts". A god example was jaywill claiming that Joel was speaking of Jesus in the context of Matthew 25 by pointing to what the author of Revelation took out of context from Joel to point to what the Revelation author thought would happen over 1500 years ago. Human inspiration all the way down to the Turtles. Hopefully though you will have some evidence that supports your position. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Except of course, in Genesis 3 it is the Serpent that tells the truth.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
But what does the story say?
quote: and...
quote: Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You're making the same type mistake.
The point is that what we find in the Bible is a mixture of very different stories and with entirely different purposes. Some are meant as laws, others as a tale of the founding of a people, some as poetry, others describing snap shots of how a particular people living in a particular culture at a particular time saw their relationship with God, with their society, with those societies around them and the rest of life. We need to look at it through the eyes and mythos of the people living at that particular time, that particular culture. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I also find it funny how we (well, you all) are trying test the divinity of the bible.....by using bible passages. Which might be relevant if I was trying to test the divinity of the Bible. But stop and think. If we were discussing any other story one of the very major issues would be the content of that story. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Is that not the topic of the thread? Or is divinity not synonymous with inspiration? Are we not questioning the "divine inspiration"? Of course divinity is not synonymous with inspiration. Even "divine inspiration" is not synonymous with divinity. And if you will read what I post I believe that you will find that I point to many other possible sources of inspiration. But in discussing the Bible, it is nearly impossible to not look at the actual passages in the...wait for it...Bible.
Perhaps, but it just seems to me to be awfully circular. It, to me, seems to boiling down to not much more than "well, this passage says it was god saying it so god must be saying it". Without outside evidence as to who said what, we are left with comparing passages, yes? Maybe I'm not digging deep enough....... There really is more that can be examined but as with so many subjects it takes some work. For example, studying the Talmud and the concept of Talmudic discourse can help you understand how people over time have proceeded. Remember, there is no evidence of who actually wrote just about anything in the Bible. We just plain don't know very much about the authors of most of it. We also have only a pretty fuzzy idea of when many of the stories were written. If you look at what I actually post though I believe you'll find that I constantly say that you cannot just pull pieces parts out and use them as proof texts without also looking at the passages in context as well as some of the historical material. In the end though, it will always come back to what is actually written. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Nij writes: Seeing as you've admitted you can't and don't know, why are you so sure in your faith then? Faith is a matter of belief, not rational, not logical, not even reasonable. Many of us believe but we also know that we could be wrong. Edited by jar, : ralli appalin spallin Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But we are still talking belief.
What difference does it make if they "know" they are right? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024