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Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Your EvC Debate Dream Team - Fantasy Debating | |||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Percy writes:
Why do you think this is? While I don't talk much anymore, I do occasionally find the time to read a lot of things on a lot of evc forums. Creationists of the recent past used to come here citing the catechisms of the ICR or DI, but now they seem to be getting little guidance from these organizations and have to figure it out themselves as they go along. I must admit that I have encountered "evolutionists" that didn't know jack poop about certain things, myself included. If you want to get me to discuss about geology, good luck on that. But for some reason, "evolutionists" who are ignorant about certain topics tend to stay away from those topics while creationists tend to have no problem making up bullshit as they go along. Again, this is a perfect demonstration of what I have been pointing out for years. It just seems to me that a lot of what we observe are the exact opposite of what we'd expect. -Conservatives favoring tax cuts for the rich to put more burden on the middle class even though this is the opposite of what their bible says. -Religionists making up bullshit in the evc debates even though they claim to have the moral high ground. -Christian divorce rates are through the roof compared to secular ones even though christians want to preserve the sanctity of marriage. -Conservatives want to be able to trash this planet even though they want to "conserve". -Christians being intolerant of gheys even though they claim to love. And so on and so forth. Iunno. If I didn't know any better, I'd have thought it was suppose to be the other way around in all these things. The evilutionists were the ones that were suppose to make up bullshit while the moral christians were suppose to be the morally superior crowd and go with facts. Anyway, just my random thoughts for the day.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
slevesque writes:
Hi sleve. This is really your point ? That the three active creationists (and I consider myself semi-active, but still) here don't talk in the same threads ? The point is deeper than that. We have observed for years, not just here, that creationists don't support each other's arguments and tend not to criticize each other the way us evolutionists do. On our side, whenever one of us say something wacky, there'd be 100 or 1000 other evolutionists lined up ready to tell that person to go away. But take Kent Hovind, for example. There was a lecture I saw where he described the human reproductive process to the audience. Specifically, he was describing how the dna of mommy and daddy combined. According to him, the dna is like a ladder. When mommy and daddy love each other, the ladder seperates and one of mommy's strand combines with one of daddy's strand to create junior. This is, of course, complete bullshit. I have the videos lying around somewhere. I will try to find it and post it. Nevermind, I found the videos. Sad to say, but I actually have his entire creationism lecture series. I will try to find the lecture portion I mentioned above and post it on youtube. Heck, I will start posting every one of them on youtube. The point is Hovind has said many nonsensical things over the years, and not once have I seen other creationists criticizing him for it. Over the years, he's said that the sun's main source of power comes from combustion. He's said that there was a water canopy above the atmosphere before the flood. This would have crushed every living thing on Earth! If you don't know what I'm talking about, you need to go back to school and learn about fluid mechanics. As a rule of thumb, it seems that creationists don't criticize each other the way us evolutionists criticize our own. This is a frustrating thing, especially when we sometimes get the most wacked up creationist. There was a creationist I encountered that said he found the absolute proof that evolution was impossible and that it proves god exists. According to him, evolution requires an external source of power. Everything, according to him, requires an external source of power. Since we haven't found this external source of power, there must be a god fueling us with Energy. Amazingly enough, none of the other creationists said a thing. Nada. Zip. After having an eye surgery because my eyes rolled back so hard that they got stuck, I had to inform him that we have this big-ass bright object in the sky called THE SUN. If anything, Buz's debate in that thread is a perfect demonstration of how creationists aren't team players and that they don't criticize their own. Not ever. Added by edit. Actually, I'm going to perform an experiment on here to demonstrate my point. Stay tuned! Edited by Taz, : No reason given. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
slevesque writes:
Speaking as someone who TAed for college physics once upon a time in the past, trust me when I say it's amazing how far people can go in life while still living in a delusional state. Just studying something in college doesn't necessarily qualify you as not stupid or not ignorant. I'm not saying you are, but just be aware that you wouldn't want the standards to be so low. And yet, I am neither stupid (by any reasonable definition, you can't be dumb and study math at university) nor ignorant (I could probably do a fine job of defending evolution) nor mendacious (No motif for a guy who studies in science to be a creationist) Others have pointed out, even in this thread, that you seem to have some ill-informed preconceived notions of science is and how scientific theories work. Percy did a wonderful job at explaining your misconceptions just a few posts ago. Now, the test for us to see is whether you will absorb what he said and try to better understand the nature and differences between theory and specific examples within the framwork of the theory or will you behave like so many creationists we have had in the past. Your choice.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
slevesque writes:
*Blink* I have never, ever observed a bunch of evolutionists correcting one of their own in a discussion with a creationist. You did not just say that did you? I've been corrected so many times that I'm beginning to doubt my own knowledge database in my head. We evolutionists correct each other all the time. And when a high profile evolutionist says something wrong, you can be assured that he's going to get hundreds, if not thousands, of criticisms from his fellow evolutionists. This is why science is a self-correcting process. In my lab we've been working on and testing a possible steel replacement material that weighs 1/4 that of steel, doesn't corrode, will last for about 100 years, much much stronger than steel, etc. We just got more fundings to continue our work. Basically, it's a dream material come true for structural engineers. It's also cheaper to make than steel. The point is in this line of work we have to be very precise and we're always prepared for criticisms from our peers. Talk to any researcher and they will tell you getting a paper to go through peer review and actually get published is pretty damn hard nowadays. I speak from experience. I'm sorry, but I simply don't see the same kind of discipline coming from the ID/creo side. Every prominent creo/IDist I have heard (and believe me, I've heard plenty... I also collect their videos) has spout more bullshit than I care for. And I'm not even a biologist. My knowledge of biology is limited to what I took in college and my readings of current events in biological sciences. Even the nonsensical myth of irreducible complexity won't go away.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
PaulK writes:
Isn't this true of this side of the fence also? I know I can't stand to read things on those creationist forums anymore. Paul, can you honestly say that you can read a forum full of people like buz and not get high blood pressure? So creationists will only stay on sites strongly biased in their favour. Edit. My own son even dared to defy me! From FSTDT
quote: Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
DrA, I'm just curious about something. Did they offer Sarcasm 101 or something at the school you went to?
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
DrA writes:
But how do you know that it's effective? There have been studies that show ignorant people can't understand why they are wrong and continue to believe in the nonsense that they believe in. I would not descend to mockery if I knew of a better way. Among the Inept, Researchers Discover, Ignorance Is Bliss
quote: We've all observed what this study confirmed. People who can't understand the evidence tend to be the surest people about their ill-informed preconceptions. Again, how do you know they even understand your snarks? Case in point. Buzsaw might not like this, but he is demonstrating the conclusion of the mentioned experiments. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
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