The Movie Paranormal Activity

LOLOf course you cannot and should not make decisions using my personal beliefs. It's a good thing I never suggested that.And there really is one big difference between your Armageddon scenario and my being dead. In your scenario I am not dead.Nor have I suggested that you should not consider even something as silly as your Armageddon Scenario as positive evidence if you so wish. If that is sufficient for you and labeling it as supernatural is sufficient to stop your questioning and declare it a "Known Supernatural Event", then I can live with you believing that.As for being dead, I will also gladly repeat what I have said before. Since I have never been dead I cannot tell you what would be different or even if anything would be different. After I am dead I may, just may see some way to test the supernatural.Or maybe not.Finally, I will repeat what I have said about the supernatural.I can see no way while I'm alive that I could identify something as supernatural. If you can present a method where I could test the supernatural, I will be happy to reconsider my position.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

You continue to make distinction without any basis for a difference aside from your personal belief. Since you have never yet experienced biblical Armageddon you cannot tell me what would be different or even if anything would be different with regard to your ability to know or test for supernaturality in the event of that occurring either. During biblical Armageddon you may, just may see some way to test the supernatural. So you cannot imagine how positive evidence could possibly exist in either scenario but you personally believe that in one it might whilst in the other it just won't. And you obviously passionately believe that this makes a difference in terms of the evidence that is even hypothetically available. But the same hypothetical evidence is equally available to both equally hypothetical scenarios. There really is no basis for your distinction aside from personal belief. Well given the nature of Armageddon let me ask you this - If you were one of those resurrected as part of Armageddon would this combination of being dead and experiencing biblical Armageddon potentially allow you to know of the supernatural? Or not? Out of interest do you think there is any test that can be done to conclusively prove that a given phenomenon is entirely natural and indiisputably free from supernatural involvement?

And I will repeat yet again.I do not know if being dead will make a difference or not which is why I have repeatedly said, "Ask me after I am dead."I have been in many "Armageddon like" situations, and all turned out to be either completely natural or ...wait for it ... Unknown.I will repeat yet again, if you can show me a test for supernatural, I will reconsider my position.If the natural causes explain what is seen, I see no need to insert the supernatural.If natural causes cannot explain all that is seen, I see no need to insert the supernatural.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

No I'd say your making shit up. No, I'd say let us put them in the "Straggler's made up shit folder. Except there is no positive evidence for the existence of Thor outside of literature.I get the impression you are conflating made up nonsense with the word supernatural. It does make sense such a ardent empiricist atheist such as yourself would not make any distinction from some crap you pulled out of your arse and things your fellow humans have described as supernatural. Since to you it is all made up crap. Now if you can just get the rest of the world to agree and redefine the word supernatural to equal "made up crap." Hence forth when ever Stragglers uses the word "supernatural" it will actually mean "made up crap." Then there will be no misunderstandings eh?Edited by 1.61803, : spelling the word. Then

You misconstrue my motivations. My point is that being fictional does not preclude something from being supernatural. My point is that your folder system is based on inadequate and circular thinking.There are numerous examples of things which are both fictional and supernatural. Dracula. Casper the Ghost. Voldermort (from Harry Potter) etc. etc. etc.The fact that I am pulling crap out of my arse in the form of rotund purple spotted immaterial and empirically undetectable toilet goblins doesn't mean these are not supernatural. It simply means that your use of the term based on "known" and "unknown" is a method of self serving nonsense designed to semantically result in your ultimate conclusion that there is by definition some sort of vacuum of all evidence when considering the existence of the supernatural and evidence for or against this.There is plenty of evidence available and it has nothing to do with "folders". Look up the term "supernatural" in any common dictionary or encyclopedia and you will find that both Thor and my immaterial toilet goblins are accurately described as such.You will find that the term is used to refer to that which exists 'outisde nature' or 'relating to a divine power'.You will not find any mention of folders. so tell me now who is making up definitions to suit their arguments?

Oh that is funny!!! Such as..........? But first let me remind you of Armageddon as I initially described it: The second coming of Christ 'God the son' and ensuing Armageddon is in full swing. Christians are being exhalted into raptuous heavenly paradise, the dead coming bodily back to life, giant scorpions drag people into a great fiery abyss, Angels start decreeing various plagues on the unfaithful and the fornicators. Those who have not repented their sins are cast into the fiery abyss to be tormented for all eternity by demons.You must lead one exciting life if you come across this sort of thing on a regular basis!!

Yup, I've had some exciting experiences.But you still have not provided any tests I could do that might show your scenario should be considered as supernatural.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

The same tests that might be able to be done when you find yourself in this once-I-am-dead state you keep banging on about.Same ones. You tell me what they might be. I am not the one making a distinction between the two scenarios. You are. Ever been tormented by demons for all eternity?

I have explained several times that I do not know what tests might be available after I am dead. Ask me then.And yes, I have been tormented by demons but not for all eternity yet and all the demons so far have been found to be totally natural. Should that happen, you can ask me then.I have said repeatedly that if you can present a test that works I will gladly reconsider my position.I'm still waiting for that test.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Well if you are going to cite some unspecified tests that might be available to test for supernaturality only once you are dead I am simply going to cite some unspecified tests that might be available only as a result of experiencing biblical Armageddon.So once again you are left making a distinction based on your personal beliefs and nothing more. For either of the scenarios under consideration. Thus making any distinction between the two scenarios based on such tests entirely unjustified.

Too funny.Once again, if you will tell me what test I could apply during your Armageddon scenario I am happy to reconsider my position.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

When people describe something as "supernatural" or "paranormal" they are not just saying that the thing under consideration is unknown. They mean something far more than that. They are saying that the thing under consideration is inherently beyond scientific or material understanding in some sense. NOTE - Not necessarily immune to material detection - Most supernatural concepts are defined as being detectable in some way. The idea that they aren't is a fairly recent human development. Probably a result of supernatural concepts being pushed into the ever diminishing gaps in our understanding of the world.Such entities can be intentionally fictional (e.g. Santa or the supernatural beings in Buffy the Vampire Slayer). Or they can be entities that were once believed to be real but which have now to all practical intents and purposes been refuted (e.g. Thor, Zeus, Apollo etc. etc. etc.) The cast of these such entities is vast and ever growing.Or they can be entities designed to be directly unfalsifiable such as jar's idea of GOD or his notion of existing in some once-I-am-dead reality that is not part of nature.Now all of the evidence available strongly suggests that human beings are absolutely desperate to invent and believe in the existence of these weird/spooky/miraculous entities and phenomena. Desperate to believe for all sorts of very human reasons. Explanation. Comfort. Companionship. Awareness of mortality. Etc. Etc. All of the available evidence also strongly indicates that they are wrong to believe that such things do actually exist.But the fact that humans keep wrongly describing things as "supernatural" doesn't mean that you get to redefine what people mean by this. Introducing some silly folder categorisation system where the supernatural is effectively defined out out of existence or defined as being permanently unknown just doesn't match the reality of concepts like Thor who remain just as supernatural as ever whilst also being effectively refuted and thus "known" by any reasonable standard of the term. Such refuted entities highlight the problem with the whole "known" and "unknown" folder nonsense when advocates tie themselves in knots over where to place such concepts.And then you have examples like jar who end up describing the common use of the term supernatural as "meaningless" in one breath whilst describing the object of their own beliefs in terms that exactly match that meaning in the next.The term "supernatural" has conceptual meaning. And that meaning has nothing to do with folders or boxes or ridiculous arrays of subfolders and sub-boxes.

If you are going to cite some unimaginable and unspecified tests that might be available to test for supernaturality only once you are dead I am simply going to cite some unspecified and unimaginable tests that might be available only as a result of experiencing biblical Armageddon.Once again leaving you to make a distinction between the two scenarios based on your personal beliefs and nothing more. How about you reconsider making a distinction between the two scenarios until you can think of a test that applies in one scenario but not the other?

Please learn to read.There is a distinction between the two events.In your scenario I am alive. As long as I am alive I cannot imagine any test to distinguish something supernatural. If and when you present such a test I will happily reconsider my position.And yet again, what I have said is that after I am dead I may be able to identify something as supernatural. BUT, until I am dead I see no possible test and even after I am dead there may still be no possible test.It really is that simple.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!