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Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Subjective Evidence of Gods | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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GDR writes:
This is only true if you ignore the fact that most of the planet's surface is unsuitable for us to live on and the comparatively small amount of land that we can live on is filled with innumerable deadly threats. We exist as sentient beings in a world that appears to be made ready for us.But other than that - sure.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
GDR writes:
Then you undermine your own argument. Ya, but we struggle on. Nobody said it was going to be easy. The world does not appear to be ready for us.Instead, we have had to hammer it into a suitable shape. And considering how many years the world did not even have human life - it would appear that we are barely an 'afterthought' in the history of this planet - and barely a 'blip' in the history of the universe.
Comparing: 15,000,000,000 years since the universe 'began'. 4,500,000,000 years since the Earth was formed. 2,500,000,000 years since life appeared on Earth. 200,000 years since modern man started populating the Earth. And I'll avoid listing the sizeable number of mistakes that were made, if this world was made ready for us... Edited by Panda, : tyops Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
GDR writes:
If your criteria for 'created ready for humans' is: "it hasn't completely wiped us out" then you have incredibly low expectations from a god. The subjective evidence is that we continue to survive, and even thrive, so in spite of the fact that you perceive what you consider mistakes, the positive obviously far outweigh the negatives.Considering how many billions of humans have died from viral infections, bacterial infections, diseases, earthquakes, volcanoes, animal attacks, etc, etc, etc... I see very little reason to think that this earth was created 'for' us. People complain about the actions of religion and politics and racism - but the real killer is the world will live on. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Mazzy writes:
As a percentage: how much of the universe have we searched?
Earth is the lucky planet. So far, in this universe filled with the so called seeds of life, water flying about in comets everywhere, not so much as a bacteria or algae has been found anywhere in the universe.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
*nods* about .000000000000000000000000000000007% give or take a couple orders of magnitude.I suspect that Mazzy will not understand that the little we know about the universe's contents means that it is impossible to discern if "Earth is the lucky planet" or not.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Mazzy writes:
It is not irrelevant - and there is only one terrestrial planet. The answer is irrelevant. Right here in our solar system there are 4 terrestrail planets that were equally as inhospitable. If every single solar system has a habitable planet populated with life-forms, then what would make Earth so lucky?Millions and millions of planets, all teeming with life. Earth would not be special or lucky - just one of many. So - how many habitable planets are in this galaxy?If you can't answer this, then how can you say how lucky the earth is. Also, do you know the odds of life existing on this planet...? Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Chuck77 writes:
I was waiting for Mazzy to say it was 0.00000000001%...
Pretty good, it seems. 100%, it appears. Chuck77 writes:
Correct, but I would want to do a little more searching than just 1 solar system.
Life could be on other planets. It would seem if we never find any it's possible "subjective" evidence for god(s) since we're the only ones, fo far. Chuck77 writes:
We can also observe that we have not looked at much of the universe. It can't be answered, but we can go with what we can observe, which is, so far it's only us.But you are correct: it can't be answered (even though you then go on to try and answer it). If your idea of good evidence is searching 0.0000000000000001% of the universe and then saying: "We are the only life, therefore we are special!", then I would accuse you of some kind of confirmation bias where you happily ignore the fact that we have barely even looked.I would not want you investigating a murder... "We don't think there has been a murder as we looked in our front garden and can't find a dead body. Case closed."
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
GDR writes:
Looking 'like' something does not actually make it something. But you are just describing how beautifully the system works. It just has to occur to you that something that works so well has at least the appearance of being designed. I had a friend that looked exactly like Avril Lavigne - but she wasn't her. GDR writes:
Argument from incredulity Frankly to think that something as beautiful as that can have come about from a non-intelligent source stretches belief further than I can go. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
I would just like to thank both you and GDR for an interesting and well-mannered (even if slightly long-winded) discussion.
(No sarcasm intended)
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Chuck77 writes:
So, if you honestly and reverently prayed for healing, but did not use prayers from the bible, then god would have refrained from healing you? I told YOU before that I was healed from using prayers from the bible. Using words from the Bible to speak to my circumstances.I doubt you believe that is true. Lady: "Please, heavenly father: save my child from the hurricane!"God: "You didn't quote from the bible - so, no." Surely, it is the person praying (and what they are praying for) that is important, not the actual words of the prayers? Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
GDR writes:
Do think that we can say something exists because we can't test for it? You have no idea of how badly I wish I had thought of that. Brilliant.Do you think that every single idea that anyone imagines is validated because we can't test for it? This seems like you are now in a position that all supernatural beings are equally un-testable and are therefore equally likely to exist. (This would include the FSM.)Always remember: Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Straggler writes:
I agree. We cannot test for any of these. But I would suggest that we can still be pretty damn sure (albeit philosophically uncertain) of their existence.But it seems that GDR liked the argument put forward by RADZ regarding not disbelieving in things that can't even be tested for. It seemed that GDR was moving towards thinking that a complete lack of evidence was enough to make something possible. Always remember: Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
RAZD writes:
Note that you are wrong. Note that there seems to be an implicit need to reach a decision here on all these concepts, that you somehow MUST choose existence or non-existence.Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Chuck77 writes:
But you aren't #1 in regard to other gods - just your chosen version of the christian god, yes? Im a #1. It's unreasonable but that's what I am.I expect you to be a #7 in relation to other gods. To paraphrase: You know there is no other God. Unreasonable, indeed. Chuck77 writes:
#6.99999
Where are you on the Dawkins scale Panda? and why?quote:Why? Because I have seen no evidence for any gods - but I realise that it is theoretically possible for some evidence to be found, sometime in the future. Chuck77 writes:
Compared to? Do you think there is more or less evidence for gods?Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Chuck77 writes:
But you chose a different god to all the other religions - despite there being no reason to pick your god over any of the others.
All way don't lead to the truth. One truth, One God. Chuck77 writes:
There is no evidence for a lack of gods, per se. Umm, compared to no god(s)?There is a huge amount of evidence that we make up gods - but that it not exactly the same. I also see no evidence for the existence of gods. So, I think the answer to your question: "Do you think there is more or less evidence for gods?" is: "No, I don't." Chuck77 writes:
I see no reason to value subjective evidence highly - but you claim it is convincing. Subjective evidence, do you feel there is a good amount of subjective evidence for god(s) that you could invest time in that would someday lead you to a realization that a god exists?Do you think that I should believe your subjective evidence over a muslim's subjective evidence? Do you think that I should believe your subjective evidence over a hindu's subjective evidence? Please explain why? Chuck77 writes:
Exactly how do I (or anybody else) investigate this testimony you refer to? Do you even care to? Are you here to shoot down all ideas and evidence or are you willing to investigate claims people have actually made? Peoples testimony is evidence of God even if you don't agree with it. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.
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