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Author
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Topic: Is agnosticism more intellectually honest?
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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Message 65 of 95 (630754)
08-27-2011 5:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by Blue Jay
08-27-2011 1:13 PM
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quote:
I disagree: if you don't know what god is, you don't really know what evidence it would leave behind. So, lack of evidence results not just from the non-existence of the evidence, but also from failures to recognize evidence that might be there.
I fully agree. In fact such proof itself would negate the premise of a greater than the universe 'universe maker'. One must consider what they ask proof of. Its like a virus on the ocean bed demanding proof on its desk. The logical answer is the sound premise when proof is neutralized in both motions; this has been flaunted as a negative cannot be proven, when it is not that at all. In fact, the sound premise says a complex object must have a producer till disproven. A pink zebra appearing in one's bedroom or a car found on Mars cannot be flaunted that way. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by Blue Jay, posted 08-27-2011 1:13 PM | | Blue Jay has not replied |
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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Best way is to follow the step by step thread in the document which introduced the premise of a universe maker. The protocol of the relevant issues starts with Q1: Q1. Is the universe you exist in finite?
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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quote:
A1: I don't know.
What does the evidence indicate? If the universe is expanding, does it not mean it was not infinite 10 seconds back?
quote:
Q2: What does this have to do with anything?
Apples and oranges apply. Why not cooperate with the thread of questions as a devil's advocate methodology, with the clear premise a curcular arguement is the most wrong path?
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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Then play devil's advocate. What is the universe is deemed absolutely finite.
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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Message 74 of 95 (630767)
08-27-2011 6:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 72 by RAZD
08-27-2011 6:04 PM
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Re: Ben Franklin test
There is evidence. If the BB is deemed some 14B years away, it means there was no universe 100B years ago. Yes/no?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by RAZD, posted 08-27-2011 6:04 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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What if the universe is deemed absolutely finite. A simple question to break the deadlock of your position. Deflection indicates a refusal to delve further in the issue's examination.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by jar, posted 08-27-2011 6:24 PM | | IamJoseph has not replied | | | Message 82 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2011 6:27 PM | | IamJoseph has replied |
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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Its not a theological question. You can feel safe answering it.
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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When you arrive at a brick wall and keep banging on it - you end up in a circular path. The correct way is to allow alternate considerations and see if they fit. However, it seems you are fundamentally in opposition to test your case. So either continue banging your head on the brick wall - or follow the course I suggested as a devil's adquate test.
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: 06-30-2007
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Suit yorself. Your not shit scared, right?
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