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Author | Topic: What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: One of the most known laws, and what seperated Christianity from its mother religion, and rendered the Jews the most hated throughout history:
quote: Mysteriously, none were able to add anything: the world still turns by the Hebrew laws exclusively, to the extent any country or institution which does not follow these laws are seen as outside the law [lawless]. Not a single law was accepted by humanity's institutions from the Gospels or Quran!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: These measurements are not subject to confusion, as you have done in a number of posts thus far. The measurements of the house which contained the Arc, for example, are verifiable in the historical, specifc writings of Josephus and the temple scroll found in the dead sea scroll package. Example measurements of walls, pillars and porches of the Jerusalem temple given in cubits [roughly a foot; elbow to fingers]:
quote: quote: And all the life forms of the earth as well, right!? No, the whole of humans could not fit in that space and such a view is quite bizarre. Even a can of sardines does not allow such a view.
quote: This is already given, which you keep denying in every post. This is the count of humans who entered the arc, in accordance to the advocation given to Noah:
quote: quote: You tell us!? I gave you an account of those that went in.
quote: That does not make sense. You are refuting given reasoning and statements with a generic premise of what God can do. How about God does not change his mind?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: It says not to add to the Hebrew laws. It is one of the 613 commandments in the Hebrew bible, and you asked for proof.
quote: I don't think so. The precedence factor rules. It is blatant the Gospels negated many commandments, not because of any revelation, but because Christianity cannot sustain itself if it did not do so. Divine man and image worship caused great existential issues for the Jews with a host of nations. IMHO, the premise of an indescribable and indefinable Creator is vindicated as correct today.
quote: The size of the arc aligns only with one large family and their domestic life forms. I changed nothing.
quote: You are quoting selective half sentences which cntradict other pivotal verses.
quote: "Of Noah's household".
quote: Absolutely I am saying that. Why do you think Judaism and Christianity are different religions!?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Lets be fair here. They said this of King David, who lived a mere 250 years after Moses. Then there was the Tel Dan discovery - and those so-called scholars have never recovered from their shame. There is more evidences [as opposed hard proof] of Moses than Jesus and every name listed in the NT! Here's more what atheists don't say of the Hebrew bible: It is the first alphabetical book; it introduced the universe as finite [there was a 'beginning']; the world turns by Hebrew laws exclusively [none come from any other source!]; Evolution comes from Genesis [the first listing of life form categories]; we have no 'NAME' older than Adam; the oldest active calendar is the Hebrew [5772 years]; it introduced Creationism and Monotheism - world and universe altering equations; over 70% of the Hebrew bible is scientifically proven. A lie by omission is - surprise, surprise! - a lie.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: What ails thee o knight of arms, alone and palely loitering? You denied the law not to add or subtract as one of the commandments in the Hebrew bible, and I produced it for you - with indexed reference where it appears in one of the five books of Moses. Also, I pointed out this was the fundamental cause of the break between Christianity and Judaism. Then I pointed to you, what you quote as Gospel is incorrect, namely it is in fact from the Hebrew bible - and that the precedent factor rules. A lie by omission is - surprise, surprise - a lie.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Yes, I do see a big problem with those scholars. There was loads of evidence [tho no hard proof]; their pronouncements were short sighted and it ignored blatant indicators; they had no merit in making their statements and using terms as myth. How wrong were they!
quote: There is no shame in being genuinely wrong - but there was too fast a gun off the hip here; obviously agenda based and biased. The so called scholars did not just say there was no proof; they ignored loads of evidences and indicators and used words such as total myth. You are white washing their unscholarly behaviour.
quote: I referred to the figures of Christianity, such as Jesus, the apostles, Mary, a Roman trial, Judas, etc - there is no proof of any of these figures, despite this was in relatively a far more advanced, modern time when writings was commonplace. Yet you target the Hebrew bible, where some 70% is already proven of a most ancient period - why is that?
quote: Not my call; I have not researched this.
quote: If you can evidence a 3,200 year figure as with David anyplace else in a writings - I will appreciate it. But I see this as quite difficult - aside from the Pharoahs very few examples are possible!
quote: Without disrespect of any revered figures, there is none more revered than Moses: by period of time; impact; and cencus [2B Christians; 1.5B Muslims; 14M Jews]. Do the maths - this beats JC, MO, Buddha, all others.
quote: There are only two possibilities here. Monotheism is one of them; many gods are not one of them. Not bad!
quote: The negative stuff can only be pointed at two religions, both in contradiction of each other, and who have commited the gravest crimes throughout their history. Nothing to do with the Hebrew bible which measures all equally and by their deeds only, giving none special treatment, regardless of their beliefs. This is not a negative thing.
quote: Hamurabi is post Mosaic and steeped in head bashing dieties. The world turns by the 613 Hebrew laws - exclusively. Sounds unreasonable, but check it out.
quote: Outside of the FX miracles, almost all the historical items are proven or evidenced. No scripture can match this.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Actually, I provided evidence for 'everything' you asked for, with no omissions any place.
quote: There was no conquest! Jerusalem is a Hebrew name, situated in the original Israelite land where they were incepted. My history book says the Jews have never occupied another peoples' land in all their 4000 year history; this is true even when one becomes desperate to go back to 3000 years. My history book says the reverse of those who make such charges. Your omissions keep piling up. Are you even aware that land cannot be given to Jews even for free: there is a command NOT TO TAKE EVEN A CUBIT OF ANOTHER PEOPLE'S LAND. This is why the Jews did not accept massive chunks of land in Africa and Australia, returning only to their tiny, barren land they came from. They never robbed Pakistan, Kashmir, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, all those Gulf states, Krakow or Moscow. Egypt is land stolen from the Copts; Lebanon is land stolen from the Christians; yet no one bothers. Maybe we should get some Jews there - that will impact! All 22 Regime states are fictions, created by Britain for 30 barrels of oil, constituting a real, non-virtual Judas. And who is going to take Britain to task - the Pope!? The greatest Post-W.W.II crime is the corruption of the Balfour and the transfering of the name Palestinian onto Muslims - a name held exclusively by Jews for 2000 years. These are covert, new forms of genocide via Heil Hitler salutes at the UN. It is also why Eurabia is happening!
quote: David established Jerusalem on Israeli land: not in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia - new states which never existed 100 years ago; stolen from surrounding peoples. A small portion used for Jerusalem, a hill top, was purchased from the Jebusites, who were allies. In return they were given protection from outside invaders. The Hebrew bible is the world's most reliable scripture. The dates can be established via relics discovered and align with the writings.
quote: There was evidence. Jerusalem; a temple once existing; numerous wars with other nations; the conquest of the Philistines; the Psalms; the references to David from some 30 prophetic books; a geneology listing. The scholars were stupid, agenda based and proven so.
quote: There was no proof, as opposed evidence. It must be remembered the land of the Jews were occupied by invading peoples, including Christians and Muslims, and these have a notorious history of destroying evidence, and spreading horrific falsehoods around the world - all based on 'belief'. A billion Muslims today hold that Abraham, Moses and David were Muslims, with no mention of his race and religion whatsoever. This when both Islam and the Arab race never existed in David's time. Muslims have no cionnection with Ishmael - check it out! Muslims also have no connection with the term Palestinian - check that out too. These false histories were promoted by European Popes as a covert genocide of the Jews!
quote: There was no merit; this has now been proven. There is no merit that Jesus or any of the apostles ever existed. Your omissions are becoming taller than you.
quote: There is no proof or evidence of the Gospel figures. Zilch. Yet 2B super advanced and progressive people fully believe this. It seems this belief does not require proof - one of the most mysterious factors within humanity's history.
quote: I admire many Indian cultures and their generous attitudes to others. However, miracles which are based on frivolous actions do not impress me, and these always smack of slight of hand. When a miracle has impacts on humanity and for all generations, such as to establish premises of Liberty and inalienable human rights - those have credibility. The reports I've heard of your mystic have been most negative, even exposing fraud, however I have not checked up on this matter.
quote: These are already listed as older in the Hebrew bible. I say very few can evidence a 3,200 year figure as historical; the Hebrew bible does. This gives credibility to a host of gfigures listed in the Hebrew, and which have cross-references by other nations. Your the one not acknowledging the merit of the Hebrew; many also calling it fables - the same who accept numerous figures from the Gospels with zero credibility. This tells me humanity is on a depraved path, upholing a totally unproven and falsified history, then causing mass murders on that premise.
quote: That is still few, and most of them are in dispute. Hamurabi is in dispute of his datings, as are a host of Greek figures.
quote: Santa has no proof of existence. Moses gave us hard copy laws which turn the world today. What did Santa give us? We should not look for hard proof of Moses - the text denies this possibility.
quote: 3 Million Israelites and a mixed multitude of other peoples. This is described in the first scientific cencus, with sub-total of tribes, gender and age groups. Now if one wants to present a lie - they surely would not say millions were witness - would you?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Actually, I provided evidence for 'everything' you asked for, with no omissions anyplace.
quote: There was no conquest! Jerusalem is a Hebrew name, situated in the original Israelite land where they were incepted. My history book says the Jews have never occupied another peoples' land in all their 4000 year history; this is true even when one becomes desperate to go back to 3000 years. My history bookn says the reverse of those who make such charges. Your omissions keep piling up.
quote: David established Jerusalem on Israeli land: not in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia - new states which never existed 100 years ago; stolen from surrounding peoples. A small portion used for Jerusalem, a hill top, was purchased from the Jebusites, who were allies. In return they were given protection from outside invaders. The Hebrew bible is the world's most reliable scripture. The dates can be established via relics discovered and align with the writings.
quote: There was evidence. Jerusalem; a temple once existing; numerous wars with other nations; the conquest of the Philistines; the Psalms; the references to David from some 30 prophetic books; a geneology listing. The scholars were stupid, agenda based and proven so.
quote: There was no proof, as opposed evidence. It must be remembered the land of the Jews were occupied by invading peoples, including Christians and Muslims, and these have a notorious history of destroying evidence, and spreading horrific falsehoods around the world - all based on 'belief'. A billion Muslims today hold that Abraham, Moses and David were Muslims, with no mention of his race and religion whatsoever. This when both Islam and the Arab race never existed in David's time. Muslims have no cionnection with Ishmael - check it out! Muslims also have no connection with the term Palestinian - check that out too. These false histories were promoted by European Popes as a covert genocide of the Jews!
quote: There was no merit; this has now been proven. There is no merit that Jesus or any of the apostles ever existed. Your omissions are becoming taller than you.
quote: There is no proof or evidence of the Gospel figures. Zilch. Yet 2B super advanced and progressive people fully believe this. It seems this belief does not require proof - one of the most mysterious factors within humanity's history.
quote: I admire many Indian cultures and their generous attitudes to others. However, miracles which are based on frivolous actions do not impress me, and these always smack of slight of hand. When a miracle has impacts on humanity and for all generations, such as to establish premises of Liberty and inalienable human rights - those have credibility. The reports I've heard of your mystic have been most negative, even exposing fraud, however I have not checked up on this matter.
quote: These are already listed as older in the Hebrew bible. I say very few can evidence a 3,200 year figure as historical; the Hebrew bible does. This gives credibility to a host of figures listed in the Hebrew, and which have cross-references by other nations. Your the one not acknowledging the merit of the Hebrew; many also calling it fables - the same who accept numerous figures from the Gospels with zero credibility. This tells me humanity is on a depraved path, upholing a totally unproven and falsified history, then causing mass murders on that premise.
quote: That is still few, and most of them are in dispute. Hamurabi is in dispute of his datings, as are a host of Greek figures.
quote: Santa has no proof of existence. Moses gave us hard copy laws which turn the world today. What did Santa give us? We should not look for hard proof of Moses - the text denies this possibility.
quote: 3 Million Israelites and a mixed multitude of other peoples. This is described in the first scientific cencus, with sub-total of tribes, gender and age groups. Now if one wants to present a lie - they surely would not say millions were witness - would you?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
I'm not religious, never mind fundamentalist! It seems I was correct not to accept your scholars' view of David being fable and myth: I saw loads of evidence, where your scholars saw none. Nothing whatsoever to do with religion or belief, only factual, logical pursuit of truth applies: You have also lost the debate of the Hebrew bible being the first alphabetical book; that the universe being finite was introduced in Genesis, and that Evolution is a bad rip off from the creation chapter in Genesis.
YOU SHALL NOT FOLLOW A CORRUPTED MULTITUDE.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
You are covering the same ground obsessively, without factoring any responsa. I gave you 100% proof the Hebrew bible laws forbids adding and subtracting from those laws, with verse numbers, yet you say you don't know what I'm talking about! Acknowledge your error, then move on. I also explained this is the reason Christianity and Judaism became two seperate belief systems - IMHO the Jews were correct: it is proven when Christianity rejected Islam - for similar reasons. Bite the bullet if your pursuit is for the truth as opposed any belief.
Further, I also stated the clean and unclean animals are limited to Noah's household [the text], the reason no wild animals are listed: because they cannot be domestic animals! In all your posts you disregarded the verse which stipulates that only Noah and his family and only his household possessions, are applicable!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Which one is that?
quote: This referred to the law not to add or subtract. I stand by that.
quote: Irrelevent. You still did not factor in a pivotal verse in the Noah story, relating only to Noah's household! Everything you say MUST align with it.
quote: True the laws were given later, but this does not effect the standing of the law; only the people were yet not onuserable for it. Clean and unclean are words in the Noah story, relating to Noah's household; they are directed at consumerable and non-consumerable animals in Noah's household. You are using this as referring to all the animals of the earth, in contradiction of Noah's household animals and the size of the arc given to Noah.
quote: Totally short sighted. The law was the law, even in Noah's time. But it was not yet given. Jacob married two sisters, which is forbidden by the law. It means the law was the law, but Jacob was not guilty of it at that time. Moses, writing retrospectively, knew of this law, using its terminology to describe clean and unclean animals - in Noah's household only. It means also, if Christians eat pig, it is against a law, but that Christians are not onuserable for it - they were not given this law directly; this law is for the protection of the pig, as opposed protection of humans, as with the law not to mix meat and milk being for the protection of the bird - it can identify its mother's milk but humans cannot perform this feat.
quote: Yes, I attach it to Noah's household, the arc size - and good grammar [the text] quote: Every is aligned with Noah's household, not all the earth, not all the heavens and the universe. [the text] quote: All in Noah's household.
quote: The whole heavens "of Noah's region". As in ALL THE EARTH STOOD STILL.
quote: My reading is consistant, I do not ignor pivotal verses, instead I align it with everything else in the text. You do the reverse, never even mentioning it anywhere.
quote: I have responded to those items numerously with no possibility of confusion.
quote: There is no reason to disagree Noah would have possessed all or those kinds of animals. Your list includes both clean and unclean animals. Notably, they contain no wild animals like snakes and bears, aligning only with my reading of the text.
quote: The arc size is well catered to Noah's household possessions only, and agrees only with my reading of the text.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
There is a Creation museum which shows dinosaurs living side by side with humans. This understanding is unrelated to the text in Genesis and a totally wrong, embarrassing understanding of the Hebrew bible.
As well, Christians read Genesis as the earth's age being 6000 years old, when this only applies to a life form different from and possessing a unique trait: namely a speech endowed attribute; this is vindicated today - we have no NAME older than 6000; not even any history per se. In fact, Genesis is the first document which said the earth is billions of years old, 1000's of years before science affirmed it. One only has to include the pre-life actions listed in Genesis, namely the seperation actions of light and darkness, day and night, water and land; these account for billions and millions of years, and is listed well before any life emerged. The Christian view is held in sincerity, but are in error. The text is not in error, but it requires intelligent deliberation.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. AdminPD Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Are you seriously confused of such a pivotal law and discussing this bible? FYI, I claimed [or should have] Duet 13/1:
quote: Now you see why Christianity and Judaism could not/did not blend in their core doctrines, and that the Jews were right of it. Only that which cannot be added to or subtracted from is the real mcoy. Thus did Christianity foster Islam to emulate by the same premise. Result: Kaos - for all cannot right, obviously, and this does not change by the 'belief' factor. And these are the souls which were called into the arc; note it says 'thou shall take' - which can only apply to Noah taking his animals; and 'all thy house' - namely all Noah's possessions of clean & unclean animals:
quote: These are the people and animals which emerged from the arc when the flood ceased. Note it says 'Bring forth with thee' [Noah's animals with Noah]; 'every living thing that is with thee' [animals which are with thee - Noah's animals]; 'of all flesh' - here you see clearly what 'all flesh' means: 'all flesh that is with thee [in the arc with Noah]; not all the flesh of the earth. Note also it says: '18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him; [refers to the people who went in]; 19 'every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, whatsoever moveth upon the earth' - namely all the creeping things, whatsoever moved - not all the life that moved on the earth!
quote: QED.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Trying again:
quote:
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Ok, however I never realized this variance existed. Yet the issue concerned the inclusion of this law more so than where it belongs.
Thanks.
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