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Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: How do "novel" features evolve? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Why are you talking about mutation?
Cause mutation is a vital part of evolution Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.- Buzsaw Message 177 It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in mindssoon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
jar writes:
Do not take it for granted that he knows what a population is. There is a population of doggies. Are you with me that far?Ask for proof. Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
intellen writes: I am talking about natural selection of evolution, not mutation. Why are you talking about mutation? quote: intellen writes:
Yes it is. It is not I that is very confused.Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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If there are ecological challenges, why the dogs for example could not just go to another place to live? Why evolve? Other niches are already filled with species adapted to them. For the dogs to move they would have to out-compete other species in areas that those other species are already well-adapted to, and adapt to those other environments at the same time. Not as easy as it looks. But this is off topic. You need to address some of the criticisms of your posts. If I may mix metaphors, you're trailing about 99-0 in the 4th quarter and sinking fast.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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intellen Member (Idle past 4384 days) Posts: 73 Joined: |
Other niches are already filled with species adapted to them. For the dogs to move they would have to out-compete other species in areas that those other species are already well-adapted to, and adapt to those other environments at the same time. Not as easy as it looks. But this is off topic. You need to address some of the criticisms of your posts. If I may mix metaphors, you're trailing about 99-0 in the 4th quarter and sinking fast. But they move or fight to death, that is we see in the jungle. I mean, nat selec cannot part of evolution. That means, ecological challenges cannot be the caused of the new species, it ToE is right. That is impossible. But why RAZD used that in his premise 1 in OP? I am talking nat selec since RAZD had touched it in his premise1 in OP. Now, we can talk mutation or anything you want. No problem.Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design
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intellen Member (Idle past 4384 days) Posts: 73 Joined: |
PANDA, I knew since ToE had been claming that. So, we can switch to mutation, right?
Again, nat selec is only for changes, aka, adaptation, not for origin of new species, aka, evolution of new species.Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design
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intellen Member (Idle past 4384 days) Posts: 73 Joined: |
But I am talking about nat selec in RAZD's OP. Then, let us talk about mutation.
Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design
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foreveryoung Member (Idle past 611 days) Posts: 921 Joined: |
This is making an unevidenced, unsupported statement that purports to delineate a limitation to evolution. I understand that that is the way you perceive what I stated, but it is a mischaracterization of my intentions. It may be unevidenced and unsupported, but that is irrelevant to the purpose of my post. It is my opinion that is based on my analyses of what I understand evolution to be. It is an example my mind came up with that seems logical in its presentation. The situation I came up with does seem improbable for random mutation and natural selection to produce. I gave the reasons for its improbability. Can you point out the flaws in my logic instead of saying it is unevidenced and unsupported? Does a thought experiment have to have evidence? As for support, if the conclusion is supported by the underlying reasoning, it has support. If you are going to claim it is unsupported, you are going to have to show how the reasoning is faulty.
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intellen Member (Idle past 4384 days) Posts: 73 Joined: |
TO JAR, yeah...I got it..
then...?Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design
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subbie Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Yeah, there are thousands of another species, that means, natural selection cannot be the caused of the origin of the new species, therefore, evolution is wrong. You need to explain why you think natural selection cannot result in the creation of new species instead of simply saying so.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
But they move or fight to death, that is we see in the jungle. I mean, nat selec cannot part of evolution. That means, ecological challenges cannot be the caused of the new species, it ToE is right. That is impossible. Your premise and conclusions are entirely wrong, as has been explained to you by numerous posters. (Note my signature, below.)Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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intellen Member (Idle past 4384 days) Posts: 73 Joined: |
Nat selec cannot be the caused of evolution or new species is very simple: organisms fight to live or die without evolving, just like dogs in our example.
They adapt but they don't evolve.Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design
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subbie Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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It's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
First, we've told you countless times, organisms don't evolve, populations do. This is not simply a matter of semantics. This is basic. If you don't understand this fact, and I believe you do not, you will never understand anything. Second, yes, sometimes a population can move in response to environmental changes. But sometimes the population evolves. If you believe this is not so, you need to explain why. Third, evolution is a form of adaptation.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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intellen Member (Idle past 4384 days) Posts: 73 Joined: |
Subbie = It's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about. First, we've told you countless times, organisms don't evolve, populations do. This is not simply a matter of semantics. This is basic. If you don't understand this fact, and I believe you do not, you will never understand anything. Second, yes, sometimes a population can move in response to environmental changes. But sometimes the population evolves. If you believe this is not so, you need to explain why. 1. I knew that accdg to ToE, individual organisms don't evolve but population BUT that is an assertion and an unsupported claim since as I had been saying here that population cannot evolve since they move to a place in where safety is the first concern, just like the dog in our example here with webbed feet. Unless you show that evolution kicks in, then, that is a different story. 2. Thus, both population and individual can only adapt but not evolve. Therefore, ToE is wrong. Edited by intellen, : No reason given.Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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Hi guys
Thanks for your patience in explaining so many things on here. I really learned a lot. It will take me quite a few weeks to digest all this new information (to me). Multiple allelles explained in a way that is easily understandable. So simple when you think about it. It all makes sense. What a wonderful world. However, I know it must be very frustrating to convey and try to explain something about our world to somebody with the mentality of a loaf of bread. Be assured that not all of us are like that and really appreciate all the knowledge passed on so freely here! Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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