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Author Topic:   Romney the Bully
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 31 of 264 (661899)
05-10-2012 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
05-10-2012 7:59 PM


Re: Change is possible
jar writes:
And THAT is what you should judge him on.
Let's not also forget that he is denying ever remembering any of that.
I'm pretty sure an event like that is pretty unforgetable for either party.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 7:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 8:26 PM Taz has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 32 of 264 (661902)
05-10-2012 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taz
05-10-2012 8:19 PM


Re: Change is possible
So judge him on his behavior today.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Taz, posted 05-10-2012 8:19 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 05-10-2012 8:53 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 33 of 264 (661904)
05-10-2012 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
05-10-2012 8:26 PM


Re: Change is possible
I am. I don't actually care that much that he was a bully back in HS. When I was a cop, half the guys in my department admitted at some point that they were school bullies. We actually laughed about it a few times considering the "stereotype" was that bullies become cops.
Anyway, Romney is making the wrong move by trying to deny it. He's not doing himself a favor at all. Just man up and admit it. We all made mistakes when we were kids. What's important is we man up to it.
Have I ever told you guys I was a bully specifically targeting gay kids back when?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 8:26 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 34 of 264 (661907)
05-10-2012 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:47 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Mr Jack
I'm saying that if you want to use the past against him you need to dig up incidents from when he was not a child.
And I could say that you need to provide evidence that he had reformed, that he changed.
Personally I think the onus is on Romney to show that he has reformed, that there was a turning point that he can point to where he realized that the behavior was wrong.
I don't see that with his response to this issue.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:47 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 9:34 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 37 by Taz, posted 05-10-2012 9:37 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 35 of 264 (661912)
05-10-2012 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Rahvin
05-10-2012 6:53 PM


Re: the pathology of bullying?
Hi Rahvin,
The vast majority of childhood bullies are not, in fact sociopaths. Bullying is not itself a "sociopathic behavior." It's morally reprehensible, ...
psy•cho•path
noun
a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.
Can you show me a bully that has empathy for their victims, that thinks beating people is moral or socially acceptable behavior?
Yes it may be possible for mild cases to learn that the behavior is wrong, but they need to be put in a situation where they need to learn to alter their behavior. No psychological change can occur without a perceived need to change.
And there appears to be a higher number of psychopaths in the top economic positions than there are in the general public:
Are Rich People More Psychopathic? - Big Think
quote:
As part of a very public resignation, a former senior investor at Goldman Sachs has remarked on the company's poisonous corporate culture which encourages investors to cheat their clients. Might that kind of unethical behavior be more common among the rich and powerful? According to a 2010 study of 203 corporate executives, psychopathic behavior (which includes being manipulative, deceitful and unempathetic) was five times more common among the executives than in the general population.
5 times more common???
Forbidden
quote:
Both the financial elite and their servants who maintain this system, appear to exhibit behavior that is consistent with symptoms associated with a medical disorder known as psychopathy.(*) Psychopaths, also called sociopaths, are categorized as those who exhibit superficial charm and intelligence, and are absent of delusions or nervousness. ...
Do you think that a person who claimed to like firing people has empathy for them?
A story of childhood bullying some 40 years past would not be sufficient to cause me to not vote for a man...but his continued stance against equality for homosexuals is, and this story acts as nothing more than additional confirmation that Romney's homophobia likely runs very, very deep.
Personally I think that is the tip of the iceberg of his behavior regarding other people, it just happens to be the most visible at this time, and it certainly does not appear that he has ever had any kind of epiphany in this regard to think his behavior was ever wrong.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : ..

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Rahvin, posted 05-10-2012 6:53 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 36 of 264 (661915)
05-10-2012 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by RAZD
05-10-2012 9:00 PM


Re: Change is possible
I'm saying that if you want to use the past against him you need to dig up incidents from when he was not a child.
And I could say that you need to provide evidence that he had reformed, that he changed.
Personally I think the onus is on Romney to show that he has reformed, that there was a turning point that he can point to where he realized that the behavior was wrong.
Is this the correct place to bring up Obama's admitted high school drug abuse?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2012 9:00 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Jazzns, posted 05-10-2012 10:18 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 41 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2012 10:38 PM Coyote has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 37 of 264 (661916)
05-10-2012 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by RAZD
05-10-2012 9:00 PM


Re: Change is possible
How old are you? I'm pretty sure you're not the same person you were 50 years ago.
Edit.
Just read your last post. I see your point... I'll think about it.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2012 9:00 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3941 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(3)
Message 38 of 264 (661919)
05-10-2012 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
05-10-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Change is possible
Is this the correct place to bring up Obama's admitted high school drug abuse?
Sure. Comparisons are more than fair.
1. Obama publicly admitted that he did so without the need of a journalistic expose.
2. Drug use as a character flaw is objectively different than that of hateful violent bully.
But hey...to each his own. If drug use is more of a deal breaker for you than violence then you are welcome to your opinion.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 9:34 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 10:32 PM Jazzns has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 39 of 264 (661920)
05-10-2012 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Taz
05-10-2012 9:37 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Taz,
How old are you? I'm pretty sure you're not the same person you were 50 years ago.
1965 was my senior year at an exclusive high school in Michigan -- but one where admission was based on intelligence rather than money.
As a youth I was a boy scout, and as an adult I've been a scoutmaster.
My politics were radical liberal, progressive before it was called progressive, as they are now.
Yes, I've learned a lot of information since then, but my behavior towards other people is not significantly different.
Just read your last post. I see your point... I'll think about it.
And I also look at the way he responded to the allegations, and how that fits the pattern of the pathology ...
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Taz, posted 05-10-2012 9:37 PM Taz has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 40 of 264 (661923)
05-10-2012 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Jazzns
05-10-2012 10:18 PM


Re: Change is possible
The point of my reply was in response to your comment:
And I could say that you need to provide evidence that he had reformed, that he changed.
Personally I think the onus is on Romney to show that he has reformed, that there was a turning point that he can point to where he realized that the behavior was wrong.
Any such test applied to Obama?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Jazzns, posted 05-10-2012 10:18 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 46 by Jazzns, posted 05-10-2012 11:09 PM Coyote has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 41 of 264 (661924)
05-10-2012 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
05-10-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Coyote,
Is this the correct place to bring up Obama's admitted high school drug abuse?
In 1965 well over half of the students in my school smoked pot, myself included. I also know of parents that smoked pot. Curiously, I do not consider pot smoking to be abuse when the effects are less addiction than cigarettes and the high is no different from alcohol, tending to be less violent if anything.
I do not see that smoking pot made a person harm another person, nor that it harmed me in any way, and I am still in favor of legalizing pot.
But I can count the number of bullies in my class with one finger. And I know that he harmed other people. Curiously, I am not in favor of legalizing bullying.
Are they really comparable behavior?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 9:34 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 10:44 PM RAZD has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 264 (661925)
05-10-2012 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Coyote
05-10-2012 10:32 PM


Re: Change is possible
A big one today. Obama has said that he fully supports same-sex marriage.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 10:32 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 43 of 264 (661926)
05-10-2012 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by RAZD
05-10-2012 10:38 PM


Re: Change is possible
According to Obama's book, it was not just pot.
But again, the issue is not what they did in high school.
I am trying to point out to you your comment about later acknowledging the incorrectness of that behavior. I see your comment as indicative of a double standard.
Can't you see that as well?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2012 10:38 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2012 11:15 PM Coyote has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 44 of 264 (661927)
05-10-2012 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:42 PM


Re: the pathology of bullying?
Hi Mr Jack
Loads of people are involved in bullying. ...
So that makes it okay ... ?
You, RAZD, have engaged in behaviour here - on EvCForum - that could be described as bullying. ...
If you stretch the definition perhaps, and I could ask you for an example ...
But not a physical attack that defaced anyone or altered the way a person looked, an attack that left lasting psychological scars decades later.
This was not a high school prank, it was viscous and intentional.
It's bad behaviour, but nearly everyone has engaged in it at one time or another.
Your definition must be different from mine.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:42 PM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 45 of 264 (661929)
05-10-2012 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:16 PM


Re: Change is possible
Forty years, RAZD, it's a very long time to still be paying for one's mistakes.
He assaulted someone. Sure, he shouldn't be in prison for 40 years over the incident, but that doesn't mean that humanity need ever forgive him for the horrific thing he did.
Forty years is a long time to 'still be paying for one's mistakes'?
Get real!

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:16 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
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