My Beliefs- GDR

Not only do many of us think it is not worthwhile, many of us might also think it is condescending of you to think you should take on the role of praying for us.However, if it gives you a sense of worth in this life to put yourself above others and in control of their salvation, then I guess do what you must. It shows a lot about the character of believes.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

I suppose I can't prevent you and if you're going to waste your time, I think it's best wasted on me.But I mentioned it only because bloody Christians seem to think that i'm offering an invitation for them to save me.Meanwhile I'm still waiting for an answer.

You of course are free to feel that way if you want to. I can even accept that you could hold such a strange belief as the above, even though I cannot understand how anyone could arrive at such a position, but I'll pray that such beliefs give you comfort. Unfortunately, it is also incorrect. I can't put myself above others except in certain very limited ways. And I can't be in control of your salvation any more than I could make Chris Rock funny even though I pray might for both; your salvation is totally outside my influence or control.It's hard to post when a kitten keeps running across the keyboard.

Are you waiting for an answer to "I'm asking you to explain why, if God existed and wanted to save my soul, he then made me see the light and reject him? Why would he do that? Why put my immortal soul in jeopardy?"Does that need an answer?Do you think that if there is an afterlife GDR believes your immortal soul is in jeopardy simply because you reject God?

But we don’t know that all life evolved without intelligent origins or intervention. We just know that life evolved. It is unevidenced one way or the other whether or not life resulted from a chance combination of existing inorganic material or whether it resulted from a pre-existing intelligence.I also agree that evolution has produced larger brains and socialization has also changed behaviour which is consistent with what I would expect if I am right that God is influencing our hearts with that still small voice so that we gradually draw closer to the ideal of perfect unselfish love.I agree that if God did intervene He did it over time, although I’m also ok with the idea that it may not have required intervention but that everything needed was in place right from the start. I just see it as part of the process and certainly not done in order to fool anybody. (Although I think you meant that tongue in cheek.)

At root there certainly seems to be the assumption that belief itself is indicative of veracity to some degree. This is why no matter how many unicorns , fairies or whatever else the atheist side puts forward the theistic side just can't see the relevance. Nobody actually believes in these things ergo they are not comparable examples. Nah!! GDR knows I disagree with him. His faith doesn't stretch to thinking he has converted me I was just trying to get across the whole 'two sides of the same coin depending onnwhich premise one starts with' thing that I think underlies how GDR is responding to Oni's persistent pointing out that begging the question circular reasoning is going on.

I'm not saying that there aren't considerable differences between RAZ's and GDR's overall posuitions. As a deist I doubt RAZ believes in the ressurrection of Christ etc.I'm simply pointing out that they both consider belief in "god(s)" and (as they seem to see it) atheistic disbelief as simply opposite conclusions neither of which can claim to be rationally superior. Both, as they see it, are based on a founding premise of either acceptance or rejection. A "world view bias" or whatever you want to call it. Sure. But if you read the posts of either RAZ or GDR (or various other on the saner side of theistic here) you will see the common theme that they are equally baffled as to why you or I would, as they see it, start from the position that God doesn't exist and then dismiss all the personal accounts, religious texts etc. etc. etc. as obvious bunk. But if there were a big book of stories about unicorns with lots of proclaimed eye witness testimony about what unicorns have done and a mass of people many of whom are evidently quite intelligent and even scientifically literate who believe in unicorns and who make this belief a large part of their daily life.......Then presumably GDR would give more credence to unicorns. I guess we can ask him that. I honestly don't think GDR can even see why the comparison is relevant. Look - You know I'm with you on the flaws and inconsistencies in the theistic position. But having been round and round and round this issue myself with various theists/deists here I think we've got to better get where they are coming from in order to better debate the issue.I think GDR (and RAZ to a degree) would say that disbelief in god(s) demands that one reject a whole heap of evidence in the form of personal experiences and religious texts etc. etc. whilst disbelief in unicorns doesn't. I think they see the comparison as silly, insulting and just an attempt to mock. Coz they think it obvious that the two things just aren't comparable.That's how it seems to me as a seasoned campaigner on these issues....

Christians put a lot of weight on revelation and a belief that they can and do interact with god. My question isn't about me, I'm just giving an example of where the reverse happened, and then asking why your god would cut off the communication?If god exists, it's a very cruel thing to do, like refusing to talk to your children.What's with the un-revelation? How does that fit in with your beliefs?

Again, not sure I see a question that needs an answer.How does someone determine they are communicating with God?Does GDR believe he communicates with God?

In other words, you believe whatever you like, then change it to suit whatever new information we discover. You have a theory that cannot be disproven, anything we find out next can only confirm your beliefs. If we could show that aliens put us here it would be all part of god's plan.My flexible friend; I give up.

Yes, God 'nudges' him, and, like you, I assume he prays.

Not sure how that is relevant.I pray, but that is not communication, more simply introspection. It's not a two way process.I pray that basically "God's will be done". Now that may not be the outcome I want. It may not have a response. Prayer is more an exercise than a pleading.But I cannot say that I know God responds or know that God nudges, that I could ever provide any evidence or support in a scientific materialistic sense.

Tangle,
My dear sweet mother was sending money to a tel-evangalist.I told her that the guy was swindling her and millions of others of their hard earned money.To which she replied, It is not a question of what they do with the money, but that she gave.

I’m fine with that. So far so good. Out of interest’s sake I’m wondering what you mean by we find precursors for life throughout the world? We have no evidence for supernatural occurrences but we don’t necessarily know when supernatural events happen. In life stuff happens. Frankly I don’t if it works this way or not, but when I was delayed 5 minutes from leaving the house was it because I was divinely distracted and avoided being in a fatal accident. As I say, I don’t actually think that way but I only use it to make the point that we might not know a miracle when we see one. By the way, I know that is a rationalization and the thinking is circular but that doesn’t automatically make it wrong. Agreed. Without looking it up I’d define intelligence as the ability to reason. Sure, but it remains one possible explanation for the way things are. Aside from the condescending nonsensical part essentially I agree. However we all have faith in our unevidenced beliefs or unevidenced unbeliefs.

Let's have an EVR whip-round to have him killed.......