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Author Topic:   Feedback learning and generalization in robotics takes a step forward.
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1 of 66 (710520)
11-06-2013 10:00 AM


There is an interesting robot created by Cornell that functions based on feedback from humans and then adds generalization on its own documented here. This is an important step as we continue to move robots into the service sector and replace humans doing the jobs.
So what should we do with all the checkout folk, waiters, waitresses, counter clerks and other folk whose function gets surplussed?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Stile, posted 11-06-2013 11:14 AM jar has not replied
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2013 1:15 PM jar has replied
 Message 6 by nwr, posted 11-06-2013 2:32 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 8 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-06-2013 3:11 PM jar has replied
 Message 15 by Jon, posted 11-06-2013 5:01 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 51 by frako, posted 11-13-2013 12:56 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 66 (710542)
11-06-2013 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
11-06-2013 1:15 PM


many did not make the transition.
But many displaced workers did not make the transition. The development of trainable robots that can learn and programmable robots that simply repeat the same task is significant. The generalized learning robot and also move on to the next soon to be defunct position as well.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2013 1:15 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2013 2:10 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2013 2:51 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 66 (710548)
11-06-2013 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
11-06-2013 2:51 PM


Re: many did not make the transition.
Why would you hear of mass deaths? People die constantly. People also lost homes, families were split apart, pensions disappeared, health care was lost and so sickness became the norm.
The advantage humans have had is that we were the generalists, we had the advantage of being generalists as opposed to specialists and so learned new tasks. The folk working on the line became the folk stocking shelves.
How far can that go on though? When the machines are the generalists but lower cost generalists that do not require fringe benefits what is the fallback position?
Gross National Product may increase while per household income continues to decrease and the gap between rich and poor continues to grow. How far can that go without serious consequences?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2013 2:51 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2013 3:31 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 66 (710549)
11-06-2013 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-06-2013 3:11 PM


Re: I can see the basic function...
Did you read the article?
The point is that the Cornell robot is NOT simply programmed but rather taught to learn, to take correction from the people in real time and to then be able to apply what is learned to apply to new situations in a generalized fashion.
I also spent some time in the food service industry and maybe we can swap tales sometime, but start here. Think back to how you learned your jobs, then compare that to what is in the article.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-06-2013 3:11 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-06-2013 4:33 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 12 of 66 (710553)
11-06-2013 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by AZPaul3
11-06-2013 3:31 PM


Re: many did not make the transition.
So how can we avoid or minimize hunger, strife, riots, class warfare, revolution?
Will the pain of hunger, strife, riots, class warfare, revolution be necessary to get the US to adapt to the change?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2013 3:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 14 of 66 (710555)
11-06-2013 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-06-2013 4:33 PM


Re: I can see the basic function...
The point of the article is that the robot does not operate only from instructions.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-06-2013 4:33 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-06-2013 5:12 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 66 (710566)
11-06-2013 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-06-2013 5:12 PM


Re: I can see the basic function...
The robot learns to respond the same way you learned.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-06-2013 5:12 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 32 of 66 (710699)
11-09-2013 8:17 AM


learning by doing
The important difference in this case IMHO is that the Cornell (and several other current projects) is a change from the pre-programming scenario to learning by doing.
One example introduced was the tasks of a waiter or waitress in the food service industry. Well, been there and seen it done and guess what; waiters and waitresses learn by doing. They make mistakes and get corrected. That is exactly how the Cornell robot in the OP learns. The difference is that the robot learns almost immediately and can then generalize from that learning experience AND it don't forget.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 11-09-2013 8:29 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 34 of 66 (710703)
11-09-2013 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jon
11-09-2013 8:29 AM


Re: learning by doing
Known fact.
The robots all look prettier at closing time.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 11-09-2013 8:29 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 66 (710974)
11-13-2013 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by frako
11-13-2013 12:56 PM


self learning.
The only jobs left open will be in programming, science, and organization. just about everything else will be done by robots or computers.
Once robots are self-learning, what programming would be needed?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by frako, posted 11-13-2013 12:56 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by AZPaul3, posted 11-13-2013 2:08 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 55 by frako, posted 11-14-2013 9:46 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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