Importance of Original Sin

Though I have not yet been able to find it there are two matters which someone brought up which I may not have written much about.The Good Samaritan parable.
The Teaching to the young man to do certain things that he may inherit eternal life.I first want to find the post that mentioned, I believe, those two matters together. It may have been by someone I put on Ignore because of a belligerent attitude.But first the next post will be something quite more on the subject of so-called "Original Sin".The origin of the self was Satan injecting his thought into the human mind. The self is the soul being independent from God. When the soul of man is not dependent upon God then it is independent of Him. Then the soul becomes the self.We are told to follow the Lord Jesus we must deny our self. This does not mean to deny the soul as an organ of our being. It means to deny the independence from God in favor of dependence upon God.The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was really a source of man declaring independence from God. It was man robbing God of His position to determine what is good and what is evil for human determination of such independent of God.But there was in the universe even at the time of the creation of man, an ancient head ( a leader ) of all that is independent from God. All that is in independence from God was subsumed up in the philosophy of Satan. Satan was and still is a reservoir of all beings that have declared independence from God.In God's way He has caused Satan to be the repository to contain all the independence from God in the universe as the head of that desire. So when man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he immediately was brought under the authority of Satan and made a part of the Satanic opposition party against God.From this man needs a salvation. And God would not give man up. And the fall of man into Satan's kingdom of darkness and revolt was followed by the gracious unfolding of God plan of salvation. He must bring the saved back to dependence upon God even as God the indwelling eternal life.The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the tree of Satan, sin, death, and independence from the Divine Father - the source of life - the ground of being.Satan's end is to be executed under the cooperation of the God dependent man. God would not directly deal with Satan unilaterally. God could have long ago destroyed Satan.For His own reasons God ordained that another creature would deal with the creature. God ordained that the rebellious creature would be put down through the cooperation of the dependent creature.God formed a triangular situation in which at one side is God and the other side is Satan and in the middle to determine which way the destiny of the creation would go, is man. This is the meaning of the picture of man between two trees - the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.I will stop here for length's sake. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Three. You haven't explained why you think it fair and moral to be punished for a sin you didn't commit.

I do not hold such a belief. I do not see such a teaching in the Bible.I was liable for the sins I DID commit. It is from the sins I DID commit that Christ shed His redemptive blood for my salvation.Revelation speaks of the last judgment that books were opened concerning the deeds of each person. This man's book of deeds is his own. And another man's book of deeds is his own. And the record of each one's life is his or her own.

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" And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life.

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And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works ... and they were judged, each of them, according to their works ... And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (See Revelation 20:12 - 15)

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My understanding is that in this judgment the books or scrolls are the record of each person's works. And the thought that one is judged there for the deeds in someone else's book simply is not how I understand that.In temporal situations of life it is the case the someone may suffer because of the errors against God that I committed. Who can deny that God may warn me that my children will have to suffer some consequences of my sins in this life?I do not count that as God judging them for what I did. But in the Old Testament we do see some of this kind of discipline of consequences upon some for others' errors.Daniel had to be carried to Babylon with all the other Jews. Yet Daniel as a young man was exemplary in his devotion to God. God counter balances to this matter in other ways.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The sin of Adam has condemned you to a short and painful mortal life here on earth with no guarantee of enjoying eternal salvation.You have therefore been punished for the sins of your ancestors. That much is biblical and obvious.Ask yourself, if Eve hadn't taken the apple and if Adam hadn't eaten it, how would your life have been different.

In the book of Jeremiah the people were complaining against God that they were being punished for the sins of others. Here is what God answered through the prophet:

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" In those days they will no longer say, The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge.

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For everyone will die for his own iniquity; every man who eats sour grapes; his own teeth will be set on edge." (Jeremiah 31:29)

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In that same chapter God speaks of the new covenant in which He will accomplish a redemption in which He will no longer remember their sins any more by any means.This cynical parable about God's "unfair" judgment was also used in the book of Ezekiel.

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"Then the word of Jehovah came to me, saying,

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What do you mean by using this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers eat sour grapes , and the children's teeth are set on edge?

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As I live, declares the Lord Jehovah, the use of this parable will not longer be with you in Israel.

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Indeed all souls are Mine; indeed as is the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins, he shall die." (Ezek. 18:1-4)

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Adam's particular sin is his own. The nature that he caused to pass on to the rest of us causes us to commit our own sins. Those we are responsible for and those God has made provision for in the death of Jesus Christ on our behalf.

Doesn't work does it?If Adam hadn't sinned, then his offspring would have been born in paradise. They could then make their own decisions about apples or not apples. But they couldn't because they were already punished by being made mortal before they could make their decision.There's no get out here - you have been punished for sins committed by your ancestors and on top of that, you'll be punished again for the sins you commit whist here in this vale of tears (into which you were banished before you could sin.)

I do not know what the world would look like if Adam and Eve had not eaten of the forbidden fruit. There is no way I can know too much about that. Some of this may be tasted in the millennial kingdom which is also called the restoration.However, God's full salvation goes beyond and above what was lost.It is true that I undergo some misfortune because of Adam's fall. But it is also true that God has promised to all who love Him that He in His transcendence is able to cause ALL THINGS to work together for good.

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"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)

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So the power of thanksgiving and praise are my weapons against this concern. I know that God causes "all things" to coordinate and work together for good to those gained for His eternal purpose.My reaction to my situation as a result of Adam's transgression is to come to God's purpose in Jesus Christ with praise and thanksgiving.Of what profit would it be to me to carefully arrange arguments against my God that everything was all His own fault. At least I can spend an equal amount of time to contemplate all that Christ went through that I could be saved unto eternity.God, in His transcendent providence, is causing ALL THINGS, with my cooperation, to work together to conform me forever to the image of His Son.

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"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

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Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.

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And those whom He predestinated, these HE also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified." (vs.28-30)

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Consider reading again the story of Joseph in Genesis 39 - 46. This is a corner study of God causing all things to work for the exaltation of a man so wronged and left to misfortune.

But according to many accounts, that is what happened to Lucifer. He made a freely chosen decision to disagree with the Boss, thus banishing him into his own office outside of the main building.Why cant you people figure out that not listening to the Boss is gonna get you in trouble? You can be nice to the neighbors, see eye to eye with kids, and volunteer at the soup kitchen all you want, but keeping your own deliciously carnal attitudes and intellectual arrogance's is precisely the problem...not the gift of true free will which you all crave so lasciviously.

"some misfortune??"That has to be the biggest understatement in the history of mankind.You believe that being with your god in paradise is the most important thing imaginable but you have been denied that - possibly for all eternity - because an ancestor sinned. That's not a misfortune, that's a catastrophe, not just for you, but for the entirety of the human race.But even if you can find a way of downplaying this truly awful event in your mind, the fact that you have suffered "some misfortune" because of the sins of your forefathers, means that something unjust and unfair has occurred, does it not?

Faith and trust in God always "work". My desire not simply to be in paradise. My desire is to see God fulfill His eternal purpose.That is the first thing.
I may be happy in "paradise".
But in paradise was the tree of life which meant God dispensing Himself into man for His eternal purpose.Paradise is happy. But God fulfilling His eternal plan is best.I don't know what practical profit it is for me to murmur against God for the rest of my short life here on earth. If you think that is the best way to live, you go ahead and perfect your skill at murmuring.I see something higher in believing into Christ. Fruits, I suppose you mean. I have never found the word apple in that account. I don't share your view at all. And this post will be too long if I expound too much.They weren't punished for being mortal. They were expelled for joining the Satanic opposition party against God. And that not without a promise of salvation.1.) God's way of coming to them was in much love even though they were expelled from the garden.2.) He asked Adam "Where are you?" . The implication is not that God didn't know where Adam was. Rather He wanted Adam to consider what disruption had now occurred in what was previously a sweet fellowship between him and God.God asks us "Where are you" for us to consider just what our life has become living independently from him.Even if you respond "I am fine without God" many against whom you sin are not fine. They suffer under your iniquity and your being "fine" cost them. If you don't think you sin against others, it will have to be revealed to you one way or another.We wrong one another.
But getting back to God's reaction -3.) He promised them a deliverance and a salvation.4.) He clothed them with skins. The covering they devised was not adequate. They used leaves. God had to slay an animal to cover them with the animal's skin. This was a type of justification in Christs' death for the sinner.The bottom line here is that far from just show up and blast Adam, God showed with His disappointment, His love and promise of salvation.I believe that after the event Adam called his wife Eve in response to hope. Eve means Living. They were expecting to die probably immediately. But Adam afterwards calls his wife "Living" and the mother of all living.I think this reveals his reaction to the graciousness of God following his failure. Yet, there also was punishment, no doubt. If you want to lock yourself in that jail, you go ahead and lock yourself in and throw away the key, if it feels good.My father and his father and his father had their own sins before God. I don't even know all of them. I am not held responsible for them. I do know about my own imiquities.My kids may have to suffer if I fail to, say, enroll them in school on time. (of course my kids are now adults over 30). But I became responsible. I had to realize that people under my care could suffer if I made errors.I know a mom who had to be put in incarceration for DUI and spitting in anger at a policeman. Sure her kid had to suffer her being in jail for months. That was not God punishing THEM for what the mom did. But that is them having to undergo some misfortune for HER transgression.But if you think you have some slam dunk self pitying grumble against God, you go ahead and live your life that way. This to me is an armchair philosophy of self pity or blaming God.I noted how Adam immediately launched his own blame. "It was the woman that YOU gave me God."If you think you have found a handy God blaming philosophy as a guiding principle to live the rest of your life, you go ahead and pursue that. Not me. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

But you tell me that you are happy in the knowledge that you are saved.....I'm sure you'll be happy also when god's will is fulfilled and I'm sure he'll drop you a line when it is, but the Christian's main purpose is to be saved and be alongide the Lord for all eternity I believe.Adam's sin lost you - and all mankind - that early opportunity to be in paradise so you have been denied that which you are craving and need at birth. Now that is a punishment for committing no sin at all, it is therefore unjust and immoral and so far you've come nowhere even close to explaining why it isn't.

I don't see any evidence that man is fallen and have never found any Bible evidence that supports that nonsense.And no one has ever been able to show how they can "know" Jesus and differentiate between that and a bad burrito.Sorry but you are just trying to sell woo and nonsense.

Do you "know" Huck Finn?

Of course not. Stop and think.Have you ever read "Huck Finn"?It begins " You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer; but that ain't no matter."Huck Finn exists only in the pages of those two books.I can know about the character "Huck Finn" if I read the two books. I might be able to learn a little more by reading all the criticisms of the two books written since then and if I read all the other books Mark Twain wrote (which I think I have done yet still find one I don't remember) I can learn a little more about the author.But I have no way that I know of to "Know" Huck Finn.

Which, for me, always begged the question: what happens to children born into the wrong religion that end up dying young without having been 'saved'?Ultimately, we know the answer: the whole concept is patently absurd to begin with which is why it is easy to point out the inherent flaws in the logic of the 'being saved' argument.