Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,923 Year: 4,180/9,624 Month: 1,051/974 Week: 10/368 Day: 10/11 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Are Atheists "Philosophically Limited"....?
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 164 of 262 (723772)
04-08-2014 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Raphael
04-08-2014 2:15 AM


"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
Raph writes:
You have stated that the reason religions developed was simply because of ignorance. Perhaps I need some clarification?
I think you clarified for yourself.
Raph writes:
So, until humanity has eliminated every area of ignorance, there is still valid reason and room for me to argue that God may, indeed, exist.
On one hand you question the idea that religious beliefs are founded on ignorance and on the other you brazenly declare that as long as there are gaps in our knowledge (AKA areas of ignorance) it is justifiable to insert God into them.
You've answered your own point.
Raph writes:
And for you, you would ignore the gaps in our knowledge in order to sustain the hope that some deity is not there.
No. Not at all. I just think that after the relentless failure of religion to find God in any of the gaps it has previously proclaimed God to exist in there is little reason to think any of the current proclamations are likely to be any more successful.
As Einstein said - "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Raphael, posted 04-08-2014 2:15 AM Raphael has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Raphael, posted 04-09-2014 1:24 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 176 of 262 (723856)
04-10-2014 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Raphael
04-09-2014 1:24 AM


Re: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
Raph writes:
So, in summary, I do not need God to be in the areas of our ignorance.
Why are we here?
What happens to us after we die?
Why are we moral?
Why do humans believe in the existence of deities?
How do you explain certain personal experiences?
Etc. Etc.
These are the sort of gaps into which you and other Christians place your God. Without these gaps all you have is an amalgam of ancient myths retold in the old Testament and the tale of a bearded conjurer who gave a fairly inspirational speech on a mount in the new Testament.
Raph writes:
He is easily accessible, and has already revealed himself in the person of Jesus Christ.
So how do I access Him without recourse to plugging Him into some gap that involves 'looking within' or whatever?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Raphael, posted 04-09-2014 1:24 AM Raphael has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Raphael, posted 04-10-2014 1:22 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 192 of 262 (723982)
04-11-2014 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Raphael
04-10-2014 1:22 PM


Re: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
Raph writes:
"amalgam of ancient myths and tales" I am curious to know where you got this idea from?
The bible is very arguably a mish mash of pagan beliefs repackaged, rebranded and manipulated over time. Genesis is in large part a rehashing of the ancient Gilgamesh myth (garden, naked, corrupted by woman, wickednesss into the pure world, great flood as punishment etc. etc.). Mithra the Roman deity (also Mitra the Indian God of the Sun and Persian Mithra) was born of a virgin, crucified and resurrected 3 days later, his birth was celebrated on the winter solstice and his resurrection celebrated at the time we now call Easter, his followers took part in a ritual involving bread and wine and the first Christian places of worship were built on temples originally devoted to him. The story of Moses bears remarkable similarity to the story of the Sun-god Bacchus. Psalms 29 appears to be a direct adaption of a Canaanite hymn to the storm god Baal. We could go on.but the parallels are so plentiful this could constitute a topic in it’s own right.
Here is a link outlining some of these parallels Link
Raph writes:
Pray that God would "reveal himself"
Right. So you’ve read the bible and prayed and had some sort of internal/subjective experiences and then attributed God as the cause of those experiences.
What makes you think the Christian God is in any way responsible for those experiences? You appear to have created a gap for yourself and then filled it with the thing you were looking for. That would appear to be somewhat circular and most definitely self-re-enforcing. It’s patently a flawed approach to seeking reliable knowledge. And what about all those who take your approach but with other holy books and conclude other gods — Why would I look for my deity in the bible rather than the Koran or the Bhagavad-Gita?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Raphael, posted 04-10-2014 1:22 PM Raphael has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024