Multiculturalism

I'm not gonna look up data to support your position for you. That's your job. Then remove your genitals and come back and tell me how awesome it is.You may very well convince me that this is not abuse.

Maybe they're being proactive instead of reactive. I don't know.Perhaps they see it in Africa and are going: "we don't want that shit here", despite the fact that FGM hasn't made it there yet. Have you figured out why they want to continue the practice yet?Its not because its awesome to not have genitals. And the reasons don't translate to the UK.

Then educate yourself. Here's the report from Unicef:http://www.unicef.org/media/files/FGCM_Lo_res.pdfStart with pages 14 - 21.Then go to page 52 and go on from there.Let me know if you learn anything.

That's discussed in the report too. Did you even click on the link? Did you look at page 14?If you can't be bothered to learn about this subject then there's no point in discussing it with you. Have you ever heard of Stockholm syndrome?

According to that UNICEF report:

quote:

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In half of the countries, the
majority of girls were cut
before age 5. In the rest of
the countries, most cutting
occurs between 5 and 14
years of age

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bolding included in original Too:

quote:

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There is a social obligation to conform to
the practice and a widespread belief that if they
do not, they are likely to pay a price that could
include social exclusion, criticism, ridicule, stig-
ma, or the inability to find their daughters suit-
able marriage partners.

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Given the choice between losing their genitals and being an outcast, many choose to have their daughters loose their genitals.While that might not be "force", per se, its hardly giving them a "choice".

I don't think anybody here would object to an adult doing whatever they want to their genitals. Yup.I don't understand why Ringo can't see that people can say that they are okay with something when they are not. Like with domestic violence victims. Or Stockholm syndrome.I'm beginning to think that he's just being stubborn and doesn't want to back down from his position.

I have absolutely no problem with that.But he is saying patently false things like this:

quote:

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If she says she ain't abused, she ain't.

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And then standing by them. That's actually a pretty disgusting thing to say. I wonder what kinds of responses he'd get from a domestic violence forum. What do you think?And he's also twisting responses to meet his own needs: I was obviously not saying that.This is standard trolling behavior, but Ringo doesn't typically troll. So what gives?I dunno, maybe he's high.

(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻When I make my point, you ask me to support it.When I provide you support, you ask me to make my point.You're just dancing around in circles.My points can be found in the following messages: Message 622
Message 626
Message 631
Message 633
Message 639
Message 641

They did research and gathered data and came to conclusions that are the same as some of my points.The format of that pdf makes it hard to copy and paste. If you were displaying more honest debating techniques, I might be more inclined to spoon-feed you, but you're not so I won't. How are any of my points chasing their own tail? That's a complete non sequitur.You're dancing around in circles because you're responding to points with a call for support, and responding to the support with a call for points. That's independent of what the actual point is. All points are weak when you dig your heals in and close your eyes.You have yet to make a factual counter-point...

Nope, not from a pdf. From that pdf, because of the formatting.And you would know this if you bothered to click on the link and peak at page 14 like I asked you to. Its a matter of having the time, which I haven't had much of this week. But I do today, and it'll be faster to link to a screenshot than deal with trying to copy and paste with this formatting, check it out:

Except that when you become a citizen of a country, you agree to follow their laws instead of practicing illegal social norms.Nobody is talking about imprisoning the women who say they want to keep the practice.

Then what did you mean by this?:

quote:

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If she says she ain't abused, she ain't.

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That statement discounts the sociological reasons.

The people who want to keep the practice are in Africa. Nobody is talking about imprisoning those people.The people who are talked about being imprisoned are in the UK. And that's because you have to follow the laws of the country that you become a citizen of. But nobody has actually been imprisoned in the UK for FGM. And you haven't shown us anyone who wants to keep the practice there.Immigrants may want to practice FGM there, but that is going against what the UK wants.If they want to become citizens, then they need to follow the laws. Those laws say to not perform FGM. If they want to go against the law, then they should face the punishments.But nobody is talking about sending a task force to their homes and ripping them from their children and throwing them in prison.

What compassionate reasons?I mean, domestic violence victims keep going back to their husbands. They must not be being abused, eh? And if you had compassion for the husband, you wouldn't think that we should not press charges against him, right? Nor should we help the women get out of the situation, right? I mean, if you had any compassion for the husband...What is compassionate about keeping people in an oppressive society where they have to cut off their childrens' genitals in order for them to not be outcasted?Part of ending FGM is changing those societies so that the women are not so oppressed. That's way more compassionate than: "if they say they ain't abused then they ain't", which is actually pretty disgusting. This has totally happened with FGM. The conclusion has been that FGM is rejected as a social norm that should be allowed to be practiced.The opinions have been respected, they have been gathered and analyzed, and the reaction is that FGM needs to be stopped.The women who say they want to perpetuate it have been coerced by the patriarchal societies that they are forced to live with.Too, even some of the surveying methods were suspect. Like, when they were asked if they think they should be allowed to continue the practice, they were considering that against the other option of being banned from society. So, they choose the lesser of two evils. But if they understood that the practice can be eliminated, without them being banned from the society, then they are willing to admit that in that case they would not want to continue the practice.

That is one disgusting lie.