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Author | Topic: Multiculturalism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Hey Straggler,
STRAG writes: practical effect of the law will be to separate mothers from their babies by throwing hordes of mothers into jail (as per Ringo's objection) is just drivel. Hmmm. It seems you are saying a total stranger can take a child without a parent's knowledge/consent, slice off the child's genitals, and be soley responsible. I think you are working backwards . . .
STRAG writes: The focus of the law will be on those who do the cutting. No, I think the parents should be primarily responsible. Thusly, the main aim and practical effect of the law SHOULD be to separate mothers who solicit the butchery of their child. It's not like the circumcisers could get business without the complicit mother's help, right?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: You're missing the point. Since FGM is a social norm in some cultures, they way to eliminate it is by changing those cultures. And until the cultures themselves do change, we have to make allowances in our culture. Oppressing people in our culture who practice FGM is not going to convince anybody to change their culture. I think Straggler asked you: is there ANY practice that you would find so reprehensibly abhorrent that you would want stopped immediately in your culture?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: If I'm driving down the highway and a semi jack-knifes in front of me, I want my car to stop immediately - but it ain't gonna happen. There are possible ways to stop things and there are safe ways to stop things. So, outside of examples of physics that are impossible to prevent, is there any CULTURAL practice that you would find so reprehensibly abhorrent that you would want stopped immediately in your culture?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Jar writes: Off hand, if the practice is limited to the members of that particular culture then I'm not sure there are any practices that should be stopped. Wow, I find that chilling. Ringo, do you concur with Jar?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: Do I have to draw you a picture? No, I think word replies are adequate, but thanks for asking.
RingO writes: Ask me a sensible question like, "Is there any cultural practice that you would find so reprehensibly abhorrent that you would want stopped EVENTUALLY in your culture?" Hmmm. Okay, then it seems you are okay with children being legally mutilated during an intermittent stage. Could you answer personally HOW LONG you would allow for children being muttilated before the transition is completed? Could you answer personally HOW MANY children would you find acceptable being mutilated before the transition is completed?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Jar writes: Did you actually read the whole post? Yes.
Jar writes: Did you miss the part about speaking out and trying to discourage some practices? No, I didn't miss that part. I still find your stance chilling.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: As I have said earlier in the thread, there may be some cultural practices that we "should" discourage. Thanks for that reply, but here is the actual question I keep asking:
quote: RingO writes: Where would YOU draw the line? There is no need to re-invent the wheel. A social case worker goes into the field with risk assessment tools. If a child is at immediate risk of emotional/physical harm, it is removed from the home. The current tools and laws are pretty effective. So I draw the line with them.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: You need to make a distinction between circumcision and mutilation. Okay . . .
quote: Male circumcision does not degrade the pleasurable function. (it often increases pleasure because woman like it more)Female circumcision (especially removal of the clitoris) degrades the pleasurable function.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: I asked you, "Are you in favour of imprisoning mothers who have their daughters circumcised?" It does seem like a difficult question for SOME. Personally I don't know why, we already imprison parents who harm their children.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: There is nothing impossible that I want. And you know this particular action is impossible because . . .?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: The fact that I consider it impossible is reason enough for ME not to want to do it. Hmmm. Did you come to this conclusion using research, data, analysis, pie-charts, comprehensive ethnographic studies, scientist's white papers . . . . . . or are you just pulling your 'conclusion' out of your arse? Since the possible outcome is mutilated children and an on-going cultural nightmare, I am fervently hoping it is the former.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: We've covered that already. Pleasure is not necessarily considered "the function" by the people involved. Errrm, yes it is. That is the reason they are removing the clitoris. They don't want woman to have sexual pleasure and be promiscuous.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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Hey Xong,
xongsmith writes: In the USA, people voting for Republicans. Sheesh Xong, . . . when I wrote reprehensibly abhorrent, I was only referring to other relatively mild irritations in life, . . . you know, things like religious-beheadings, satanic-snuff-films, drug-war-assassinations. But nothing like your cataclysmic example!!! SHEEESH!!!
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: So that's another "Yes". Please inform Straggler. I'll try, but I think he's currently tied up watching the BBC.
RingO writes: Of course the question here is whether circumcision constitutes "harm". So where do you draw the line? I and others have already specified many times: we think removing the clitoris is not merely circumcision, but rather mutilation. Removal of the entire penis would also be mutilation, not circumcision.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
RingO writes: Your question was, "Do you want it to stop IMMEDIATELY?" No, for the third time, my simple question is:
quote: So stop being weaselly. (It's what separates man from the animals. 'Cept the weasel)
RingO writes: On the whole, gambling likely causes more harm than circumcision. An interesting conjecture. On what basis do you believe the removal of the clitoris is less harmful than gambling?
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